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It would appear that passengers on planes have, inspite of the inconvenience of the security they are put through, have no confidence in that security.

The fact is that focused security ie profiling, would go a long way to give confidence and the introduction of armed security guards on aircraft would also help.

Meanwhile it is worth remembering that no UK aircraft has ever been blown up on leaving the UK except the Lockerbie disaster which, as far as I know, was not due to a bomb carried on at a UK airport.

RSL

I think it is sad that we have now stooped so low that we have to look at each other with suspicions, it seems like the gestapo days are back. I wonder after the Muslims which will be the next group to be targeted. Thank god for the good level headed people in this country that we still have some honesty and sanity.

This is clearly ridiculous. I am a Muslim and I speak Arabic but as I am a white middle class female who chooses to wear modest western-style clothes I am seen as ‘normal’ and therefore not threatening. I am afraid that all Western governments have chosen the age-old British empire way of control – to divide and rule. They manage this by encouraging fear of those who look or act differently (ie. same is safe, different is scary, terrorists are scary therefore different = terrorist). When will we all wake up to understand that there is strength in diversity? To remain blind to this is to remain blind to the control that is being exerted by governments, and to remain blind to why they would want the masses to be afraid and to remain afraid. They have much to gain through playing with our minds and we have so much to loose. Let’s work together.

This reminds me of the hysteria about paedophiles in 2000, when a woman who was a paediatrician had to move house because some tabloid readers got confused.

If Bush and Blair step down and moderate, normal leaders take their place, a lot of this hysteria will die down.

Quite frankly I don't know what all the fuss about profiling is all about. The last time I checked it wasn't fundamentalist Christians or Jews who are striving to become suicide bombers, it is people of fundamentalist Muslims, who, in general appear to be of Middle Eastern origin. If police officers are of the opinion they can make our society safer by building a profile of a suicide bomber (middle eastern, muslim, male, young/middle age etc)and then concentrating on people who fit the profile then good on them. Mind you I would say that as I don't fit the profile!

I would like to know whether or not the two young men were behaving in a manner that might reasonably evoke suspicion.

As to "Flying while Muslim": I would expect any sane Muslim to denounce the so-called Islamic terrorists as a disgrace to the Muslim cause and not fit to call themselves Muslims. What is more, so long as there are terrorists who seek to distort the values of Islam to justify indiscriminate murder, I would expect any true Muslim to volunteer his full co-operation with the security measures.

Hi
Seems to me more ignorance and racism by the "white folks", rather than intelligence led securuty!
Shame on us.

I hope that some sort of profiling for travellers is used, both behavioural and, I'm afraid, ethnic appearance, and I hope that those people who 'qualify' for a closer look will understand why. I assume that when the worry was about IRA bombers red hair and a strong Irish accent would have meant a closer scrutiny by the security authorities. And if not, why not? Presumably those of a middle eastern appearance would not have been on the radar at that time.

The last time I flew back to Canada from the UK I was selected for additional examination at the entrance to the departure lounge. Looking at the other people pulled over, it seemed to me that women of a WASPy and grandmotherly appearance were being selected on that day. What a waste of time and resources! Apologise in advance to those who are likely to experience the closer inspection and get on with the job!

Hello,

Shame on us "white folks" for showing ignorance and racism.
Are we so scared, or just plain intolerant and biased to another culture?
Get real!

I have been involved in selling, motivation, etc. for more years than I care to think about.
People buy for 1 of 2 main reasons.
1. Hope of gain.
2. Fear of loss.
It does not matter what the producct is, be it clothes or terrorism.
I truly like people from the Indian subcontinent. They, from the people with whom I have been fortunate enough with whom to conect, are wonderfully polite, generous, and so on....
Had I been on the flight aforementioned and someone had voiced suspicions, then I have to believe, I would have gone along with the suspicions.
Why? Fear. Rational or otherwise, it would have felt OK. But, I would not have been right, nor would it have felt right.
I can also believe that the gentlemen in question, myself having had experience of that type of sense of humour, might, just possibly, have played up to the fears of their fellow-passengers, hence their laughter.
I could be, and frequently am, wrong, but, if it is close to the truth, then it was an excellent sale.
I have also to assume that they were not in a hurry.

Working purely on a profile of a middle eastern/brown skinned Muslim will not prove effective. If the bomber is determined to carry out his plot he would hardly advertise the fact that he fits the profile.
All he would need to do is wear a turban and look like a Sikh.
Or a Jewish skull cap, or even dress as a football yob with a union flag.

Hi,

What are these people going to do if they have to fly in Asia or Middle East? Are they going to ask most of the passengers to be removed from a plane?

You might be interested to know that exactly the same situation occured in September 2005. According to Airwise News of 12 Sept 2005, "Frightened British tourists stopped an airliner taking off from Cyprus on Sunday night after a Muslim passenger triggered a security scare by spending too long in the toilet. Passengers in an uproar forced the plane to turn back while it was taxiing for take-off to Manchester. There were 230 people on the plan operated by private carrier XLA. 'The appearance and behaviour of two individuals roused suspicion and then the pilot refused to continue with them after the reaction from the other passengers' polic spokesman Demetris Demetriou said. State radio reported they were Pakistani in origin. 'All I saw was a couple of Arab looking gents with white skullcaps. What became suspicious is one went to the toilet and went for a long time. He was in the loo for about 10 minutes' one British passenger who identified hiself only as Chris, 45, told journalists. Demetriou said the men were questionede and nothing was found against them. The luggage of the aircraft was also checked and nothing suspicious found. The flight left Cyprus on Monday, without the two passengers who departed on a different aircraft, police said." (Reuters)
So, as alway, nothing is new. As the spokesperson from BALPA said, perhaps it is the complaining passengers that should take the later flight?

The two Asians should have been allowed to fly and other passengers given the option to go or get off. This obvious point seems to escaped the attention of the media!

The two Asians should have been allowed to fly and other passengers given the option to go or get off. This obvious point seems to have escaped the attention of the media!

Clearly, this story doesn't tell the complete story, and I wonder if the men in question might have been having a bit of 'fun'. I would like to know the reason for the passengers concern before branding the entire white population of the UK, racist.

A representative of the airline pilots association was interviewed just after the incident occured. He suggested very sensibly, that after all the stringent checks have taken place and people have boarded, all those people who do not wish to fly should be advised to leave the plane. It would probably cause a great stir in the higher echelons of the airline company, since presumably the persons left on board would be flown to their destination. (Or would they??)

It seems to me that the two passengers had been cleared by security so should therefore have been allowed to remain on the plane. Those who were stupid or prejudiced enough to object should have been told to remove themselves instead (and not booked on a later flight since they were the ones causing the problem). As for believing that the two people were speaking Arabic (a) is that some sort of new crime? and (b) I wonder how many of the objectors could reliably differentiate Arabic from literally dozens of other languages.

It seems to me that the two passengers had been cleared by security so should therefore have been allowed to remain on the plane. Those who were stupid or prejudiced enough to object should have been told to remove themselves instead (and not booked on a later flight since they were the ones causing the problem). As for believing that the two people were speaking Arabic (a) is that some sort of new crime? and (b) I wonder how many of the objectors could reliably differentiate Arabic from literally dozens of other languages.

The police call for passengers to be vigilant and be aware of threats. The passengers on this plan thought that these men (unusually dressed etc) were a threat. The airline clearly agreed.

Could we please have a higher level of debate on this than "travelling whilst muslim".

This is not a personal experience, however friends of mine gave me the information about their journey to France from England, and allowed me permission to print it.They turned up at a certain southern airport for their flight to Nice in plenty of time.They went through controls and were body-searched,they were travelling with their young grandchild, aged 4. When it came to the plastic bags, the lady was obliged to give up her powder compact and two make-up crayons, the rest had been packed away in the baggage hold. When she asked if the child's crayons for drawing would be confiscated,the answer was no.What is the difference between a child's crayon and a make-up crayon, she asked but no answer was given.The female ground personnel, seemed to take a great delight in collecting items of make-up, no scissors or nail-files.They stayed on the aircraft for 2 hours without movement, and then were off-loaded, hold baggage as well, sent to a hotel at 23H, with breakfast vouchers, had to be at the airport by 05H the next day and went through the same procedures as if they had never boarded the flight the previous day. We are playing into the hands of terrorists, if this sort of thing goes on, are we not? A question to the authorities, are we really saving lives?Surely there must be a sensible proccedure that all airlines have to obey, not obscure policies of each airline.I am all for saving lives.

I don't think the reaction of the passengers was racist. It only takes one person to say they look suspicious and everybody will start panicking.

I think some people here are being unfair though, saying if they were chucked off they must have been guilty. Obviously a profit-driven airline would rather get rid of two innocent men than risk a walkout from everyone else. And as for it being a joke, why would they want to be thrown off a plane? Isn't it more likely that if it was a prank, the prankster was the one who first raised the alarm?

An outcome of the continuing message from Downing St and the White House:
'be afraid, be very afraid'.

It strikes me that these two lads were taking the p***. They thought they would have a laugh by behaving stupidly and look where it got them!
They deserved to get removed for a short while, perhaps they will think as adults next time they fly!
A

Western agression via Israel and directly against the people in the Middle East resulted in radicalised Muslims taking revenge against the West. This maddness like seen with the mistrust of Arabs flying from Malaga is the result. Blair, Bush and their friend/boss Olmert are enjoying the benefits of their policies. In the past people in the UK often looked down at the Irish and sometimes mistook them for 'terrorists' from IRA. This is happening again. When will Bush, Blair and Olmert start to respect the people in the Middle East? As long as they refuse, this maddness will go on.

I think given time the situation will calm down. The government (or western governments inparticular) have made us be more affraid than we need to be. The media hype doesn't help the situation. We need the media to be responsible in their reporting otherwise the situation will worsen to an extent which is un-imaginable.

Good idea for a new film: 'Sheiks on a plane'

We are becoming like the Americans,reacting to the fear of the world terrorist that Bush and Blair propagate.

This racial profiling has gone from a variety of ethnic groups,each in their turn being scrutinized, it seems whoever is percieved to be the bad guy, then ALL OF THAT ETHNIC GROUP must be the bad guy.This is nothing more than uneducated citizens being scared out of their wits and the various governments do absolutely nothing to rectify this,instead foreign policies are fomenting xenophobia, even if that person is a natural citizen.It is in the best interests of the right-wing to keep people scared and uneducated that way their wars can be justified.

Why were the two asians not asked about their behaviour as reported, circling the passengers in the queue's as reported on the radio news, why were they made to look as if they had been hard done by, surely if the passengers all felt 'uncomfrtable' by their behaviour then their 'rights' should also be looked at. Newsnight made no mention of any other passengers except one couple. Stop being politically correct and get proper mixed view and report accordingly. I'm getting really fed up with the one sided approach being taken. Those two lads 'looked' like a couple of bombers and they made no effort to disguise it either - OK they did it for a 'bit of fun' its just NOT funny.

Brian

Newsnight showed no evidence that these men were behaving in a sinister way. All we heard from the two passengers was that the atmosphere changed on the plane when the two men got on board, and that they weren't wearing flip-flops like everybody else!

Couldn't you find any other eye witnesses, who could actually describe what these guys are supposed to have done?

On the evidence I've seen tonight, it looks like crass racism to me.

I have just tuned in to the show interviewing the two muslim men.
I am a little disgusted in the way they thought it was wise to act the way they did before, and, whilst on board the plane during such a high security level with the suicide bombings.Are we just supposed to wait until the plane explodes in the air killing hundreds of INNOCENT PEOPLE until we take more notice!?If my loved ones were on board i too would have disembarked.
If they didn't want to 'stand out from the crowd'then whats with all the media hype?And how do we know that if they did get away with acting suspiciuosly,they wouldn't tell a terrorist group how far they actually got doing it??

This was a ridiculous piece of reporting, especially as a headline piece. The platforms you make are increasingly unreal. The presenter seemed to be getting more and more desperate to provoke - what ? Some more mature, responsible, and robust journalism please if you want to keep your audience. More Paxman, please.

It is disappointing to see that these two young men two men could not find it in their heart to empathize with their fellow passengers in the aftermath of the arrests of over twenty Muslims for allegedly plotting to blow up several airliners.

The heavy clothes, the crying girl, the smirks, clearly it was a bit of fun that got out of hand. And Newsnight fell for it. It can only feed a false sense of grievance.
Jack

I've watched the programme and I'm just shocked at the situation, what were these men meant to do? this is how they look, are they meant to use disguise?

Where will it stop, will Asians won't be allowed on buses? Underground? restaurants? are they going to be thrown out of public places?

It must be frightening to be or look Asian in this country.

Your Newsnight report about these 2 men was very one sided. Why you give these 2 'terrorist looking ' men so much time for an interview? For them to have little bit of additional fun? They do not deserve this kind of attention!

It was quite revealing when one of the two said he felt it was his word against a 12 year old girl's. This was a 12 year old girl whom he said was crying, and from that I can only assume the poor girl was terrified. The two men seemed to be completely unconcerned about this.
It is disturbing that they showed such a total lack of understanding of the situation and appear to have done nothing to ease anyone's distress. They saw the incident as an attack on them and seemed to think their behaviour had nothing to do with what happened next.
When asked by the interviewer what they thought people on the plane should have done, one of them said "You should trust us".
Well if that isn't irresponsible youth in action!
Can somebody somewhere persuade those two young guys to apologise to that poor girl and reassure her it was their idea of a stupid joke and they are sorry.

almost anyone would have terrorism in the back of their minds travelling thesedays

additionally, most of us would make some mention of terrorism in an airport, train or anywhere else for that matter

and most of us would use more than one language to communicate if we could

and if i were getting on a plane, i'd be likely to look under the seat to check someone hadn't put a bomb under it to set me up !

i can tell you, fact, that when people who hate you for what they think you represent want to harm you, they usually come as a friend, not pre warning you by showing their hand or joking about their plans

i wasn't there, so i can't judge what happened, but orange blogses who read newspapers may not be the most qualified to judge either, even if they were there

After watching this evening's show, I was left with an extremely unpleasant feeling of disgust at how the presenter (Emily Waitros) allowed the French Foreign Mninister to be so humiliated by that American ex-under defence secretary.

The man (can't remember his name) stated that "going to war without the French is like leaving a lot of useless baggage behind". On the contrary, the French were extremely sensible about not going to war in Afghanistan which somehow led to Iraq. Unlike the UK, led by Tony Blair (despite not having the backing of the majority of the country). Blair went to war as a puppet of George Bush. Atleast the French have sense enough to think for themselves.

He also said that the French show interest in something and then pull out leaving a mess behind them. As if that is not perfectly true of the U.S! The U.S pulled out too quickley after the Gulf war leaving a mess behind them and leaving the innocent civilians to fend for themselves.

The discussion on tonight's programme evolved from the UN's recent efforts to persuade countries to send peacekeeping troops to Lebanon. The French seemed eager to send troops initially but are proving reluctant after a few second thoughts (who can blame them). The French have agreed to send 200 peacekeepers to Lebanon which is less than had been initially expected. This prompted the American ex-under defence secretary to make the comment that the French leave a mess behing them. However, he has a nerve as the mess in Lebanon has been largely caused by the U.S who provided Israel with weapons and ammunition which then caused the mess in Lebanon. If it weren't for the U.S, Israel would have been unable to cause as much destruction and there would be no need for peacekeeping troops if the U.S had just told Israel not to go to war. As Israel, like Tony Blair, is a puppet of the U.S and will do actually as George Bush and his cronies say.

The presenter allowed the American ex-under defence secretary to have his say but then frequently tried to cut off the French Foreign Minister who was speaking in a language foreign to her and who had been kind enough to participate in the programme via videolink.

The French woman had to translate everything being said from English to French in her mind before processing it and was not given enough time to do so and think of an appropriate come back.

The presenter appeared weak when interviewing and did not give the American ex-under defence secretary the grilling he deserved. Bring back Jeremy Paxman!

I am making this comment here as there is not a forum for this topic.

These two men did not show any sympathy towards the returning holiday makers and in many cases other British citizens. Is it not understandable that many would have been jumpy in the aftermath of the multiple arrests of over twenty Muslims in the UK.
I think that the response of evident self satisfaction,self pity,ready denunciations,in addittion to the heavy clothing and an arabic that broke off in to english with talk of"30 minutes left to live"-that so frightened the little girl-point towards a bit of fun that got out of hand.
But of most concern is why Newsnight decided to give the story such prominence in the first place.
Jack

I would like to pose a question to the passangers and captain on the Malaga to Manchester flight who had the two Asians guys taken off the plane.
WOULD THEY HAVE MADE THE SAME REQUEST?IF IT HAD BEEN TWO WHITE MANCUNIANS,acting suspciously?....Don't think so.

Having read all the comments here, I am mystified as to why the vast majority of posters seem to believe the two "asians" behaved as if they deserved their treatment, or somehow weren't apologetic or careful enough.

As I said in my previous post, immediately after the programme, we were shown no evidence of what they actually did, so how can we judge if there was any cause to suspect them of sinister motives. One comment mentioned a Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú report - which talks about a passenger being told by another passenger that the two men said something about having 30 minutes left to live.... that's all, apart from not wearing flip flops. Come on - that's not enough to have someone marched off the plane at gunpoint!

I repeat, the only cause for suspicion that makes any sense, is their appearance. And that's racist.

well said Leanne C
but Emily Waitros ? tut tut

I think the government has something to do with these "vanilla" presenters I sick of it.

The reaction of the passengers was blatantly racist, prejudiced, ignorant. People form their initial impressions in a split of a second, as opposed to experience/knowledge about individual people. So what the passengers (and the pilot) of Monarch thought, was exactly "oh, they look Muslim, therefore, terrorists". Have they not been ignorant, they would have not mistaken Urdu for Arabic, have they not been prejudiced, they would not have been staring at the guys, have they not been racist, they would not have been making up stories to justify their behaviour...

Why is assuming that a black guy approaching you on a dark alley has intentions to harm you considered to be racist; and excluding gay men from being blood donors - homophobic? And prejudice against Muslim people justified and forgiven? Shame really.

P.S. I am not Muslim

A quick concensus of the comments here ,is seemingly saying?.... the two Asians refused permission to stay onboard is par for the course/s in this climate of fear fuelled by their "brother/sister Muslims" !!

Perhaps they should allow their Women to attend the Mosques? or close the faith schools? ... Ruth Kellys initiative to question Multicultruralism, is a well trodden path in "the silly season of politics"

Why the heck was this the headline story? Because of the religion of the two people involved?

No mention was made of the flight to America that made an emergency landing in Boston because a passenger was 'behaving suspiciously'. Perhaps because the passenger concerned was a white, middle-aged American woman.

Likewise there was no mention of the Miami-bound flight that made an emergency landing over security concerns that both toilets were in use at the same time! Or how about the flight that made an emergency landing because a passenger spent too long in the toilet!

If the purpose of your story was to intimate that 'flying while Muslim' is an issue then you are just plain wrong. The real story is that 'flying while there is mass hysteria' is a problem for ALL passengers, regardless of race, colour, ethnicity or anything else.

Drop the biased agenda Newsnight.

All the passengers were cleared by security before boarding the plane. The problem was caused by those who refused to travel with the two Asian men. Surely those who caused the problem ought to have been escorted from the plane, not those against whom unfounded suspician was voiced?

Frankly I don't know who to believe. But I'd like to see an interview with one of the passengers on the plane, or a member of the crew, to allow/force them to justify their reaction.

Maybe amateur positive profiling (the precursor to racism?) led to panic and mob rule, which is unforgivable in an educated society. Maybe these lads decided to play up to that panic as a bit of a lark and got exactly what they bargained for. Maybe the airline overreacted in the pursuit of profit. Maybe the media is exploiting this for sensationalism.

I guess we'll never know.

It would be more helpful if Muslims, instead of being 'outraged' at every turn, could understand that these are difficult times for everyone, and it is unfortunate that innocent Muslims are stereotyped as they are right now but as intelligent human beings I would think they could see that it is completely understandable. If we can ever get past this phase of history then I suppose eventually that type of stereotyping will cease.

For these two boys to board a flight with heavy clothing, especially whilst everyone else was wearing summer clothing, and speaking of '30 minutes to live' (if that is what was said) is provocative and it is no wonder that a young girl would be frightened of that.

No need to be outraged. Just admit that it was inappropriate behaviour and apologise and drop it. We've all got far more important things to worry about besides pranksters, now, haven't we.

If green people were suicide bombers and I happened to be an innocent green then I suppose I would not be surprised to be scrutinised in situations where I was enclosed in a space with people the greens had threatened. Any 'outrage' that I might feel would be toward the terrorist greens. Get me?

It is about time the myth that any human being can forecast what happens in an afterlife, assuming there is one, which seems unlikely, is laid to rest. Whilst large groups of the world's population are brought up to believe they will earn a permanently, euphoric eternity once they have achieved martyrdom by slaughtering numerous, innocent people these insane acts will continue. Quite naturally, whilst they do, fellow countrymen will be constantly regarded with suspicion, particularly in the context of air travel.

The root cause of the problem is a religion which is some 500 - 700 years behind the times. It is the absurd, literal beliefs which must be confronted.

At best, religion is about faith which is more to do with belief and hope that anything else. If it was known to be factual there would be no merit in believing.

Cathy Wright wrote:

>If green people were suicide bombers and I happened to be an innocent green then I suppose I would not be surprised to be scrutinised in situations where I was enclosed in a space with people the greens had threatened. Any 'outrage' that I might feel would be toward the terrorist greens. Get me?<

Well, you are a woman [just like me], and you are not allowed to post on this blog, because certain male chauvinists think women are not intelligent enough to express their views. So, should your message [and mine] be taken off this blog? Get me?

This reminds me of an episode I witnessed in Moscow in mid-eighties. A couple of white Russians refused to board a bus upon seeing an African man on it. Their argument was that they feared 'catching AIDS'. I was 6 years old at the time and even then it was obvious to me that their ignorance (most people weren't aware how one gets HIV/AIDS and Soviet media were connecting HIV to Africa)did not justify their racist attitudes and actions.

I guess we will never get to the bottom of this whole sad story until all the passengers have been interviewed. But whatever these lads did to arouse the suspicions of their fellow passengers, it was enough for them to be worried for their lives and those of their loved ones. It is no joking matter to pretend you are planning to blow yourself up, in the same way that you can no longer respond to the question "Anything to declare?" with the flippant response "Oh no, nothing apart from the kilo of cocaine hidden in my suitcase" - which was a genuine previous air travel incident resulting in the arrest and strip search of the "joker" concerned. All passengers on trains, planes or any public transport have a duty not to deliberately create a feeling of fear through some sense of mischief, but I would have thought it was particularly the case if you happen to fit the "profile" of a suicide bomber. Shame on the both of them for letting down good Moslems everywhere; their little prank has quite possibly caused the death of someone, somewhere in a racist attack.

It seems to me that the two Muslim men removed from the plane were either having a sick joke or wanted to sell their story. Did they fly to Spain and straight back? Why no bags what so ever? Not even a spare pair of underpants. Why wear coats in warm Spain because it's cold in Manchester? Why not just carry them? One thing most people do is to take coats or jackets off on arriving at their seat. I think News Papers should buy a story such as this, that has the hallmarks of a set up. Nor that the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú should hight light it.

The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú seems to have completely failed to check up on the facts surrounding this case and just use what appears to be one-sided reportage. The interview you carried with a couple who had been on the flight at the start of the piece was so visibly reduced in factual content as to be quite risible. A very simple check on press coverage of the story by your researchers might just have revealed the concerns of passengers that the 2 men boarded a flight wearing heavy clothing and appeared to be anxiously repeatedly checking their watches. This, combined with their visual appearance (regardless of their religion) would, I would surmise, be sufficient for ANY airline these days to pull them off the flight and re-check their credentials.

When you start running haphazardedly compiled knee-jerk stories like these you do yourselves and the rest of us a great injustice.

This incident was not "pathetic" (Jaffer Manek at 57). It is pathetic to talk about Zionist media manipulation and to say British society is declining because two young guys, whether intentionally or not, managed to create a state of fear on an aircraft. What a dreadful state of affairs when so many people feel frightened on a plane and then get accused of being racist on top of everything else !
Mr Manek introduces foreign policy as if to say it is all the Government's fault, so really he has trapped himself into his own argument if he honestly believes that.
I am getting quite fed up with hearing about the injustices done to Muslims and would prefer to talk about injustices done to PEOPLE in general. Why don't we just forget about people's colour and religion from now on and think in terms of human beings and what is right and wrong behaviour, full stop. We don't need religion, or rather religious leaders with a vested interest in controlling people, to tell us what is right and wrong. I think we can work it out for ourselves.
Forget about Zionists, Muslims, Christians,and any other organisation trying to persuade us of the existence of an afterlife in order to control THIS life, the only life we can ever know, and let's all think for ourselves.
There was genuine fear on board that aircraft. How would Mr Manek have dealt with it ?

Why not call a spade by its name rather than "a tool for farming". We are talking about racism here, pure and simply!

I, being a mixed race, Roman Catholic but with somewhat a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern appearance have encounter treatment bothering on prejudice. Before 9/11, I was hardly ever stopped by Airport security but recently at Dusseldorf Airport, a German Security personnel could not hide his consternation after having a look at my passport and find out that my name was "Michael".

The biggest challenge ethnic people face is Post-Modern Racist.

I'm not sure who to be most sickened by...Messrs Blair and Bush for instilling such a ridiculous amount of fear into white people, or the white people themselves for being stupid and gullible enough to believe these clearly evil and self-motivated men.

"One thing most people do is to take coats or jackets off on arriving at their seat."
I actually do the opposite: wearing the coat when arriving at my seat, because on airplanes it's usually cold-due to air conditioning.

Am I going to be expelled from the UK-north because I do not wear flip-flops, or undress myself on a winter saturday night scoring -10 C? This episode maybe suggest that Brits should wear more approppriately and tastefully..
Please, stop with those flip-flops, that meat show-off, those fatty bums & tums..

I'm sad to say this but I think last night's Newsnight was the weakest I have ever seen. As others have said here I do not understand why you led with a very protracted interview with the two Asian airline passengers. The reporting was one-sided and the interviewing technique was more suited to a daytime chat show than a serious news programme. This piece added nothing to the debate and did not analyse the issues in any depth.

Without wishing to appear unkind I do not understand why Emily Maitless has suddenly become a lead presenter when the excellent cast of Martha, Kirsty, and the Jerememies are presumably available. If they are all on holiday then bring back Eddie Mair. I think the step up from regional news presenting to Newsnight in one go has been too much for Emily. She does not appear to have a grasp of the issues she is discussing and appears more interested in trying to prove an, often irrelevant, point than get to the bottom of the issues.

I could not agree more with 'Alex Case', I have thought for a little while that Emily Maitlis is not suited to Newsnight.

The show last night was a shambles as was Friday's and they one thing in common both were presented by Miss Maitlis. I do'nt want to be offensive and I understand the Editor of Newsnight car'nt criticise his presenter. But he really could not have been staisfied with the one-sided interview that took place last night? Also what about the awful interview conducted with Bill Clinton and the round-table discussion on party funding.

Does Newsnight really need 5 main presenters? Would Jeremy, Gavin and Kirsty not do for the whole year?

(No doubt we will be told Emily is very popular with the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú's focus groups and various polling that is conducted by the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú?)

I am saddened that this happened though we all know why it happened. we know there was a plot by Islamic extremists to kill thousands of innocent civilians on planes. people are often stressed on planes at the best of times, but every panicky person will be even more neurotic at the moment, and hysteria in an enclosed space spreads like wild fire. i doubt very much these two were thrown off the plane purely because of their skin colour. I heard one of them being interviewed, I 've also heard the account of an eye witness. I suspect these two were are entirely innocent except that they probably thought it wasa bit of a lark to act a bit oddly, and stir up a bit of trouble. and now all the self righteous people can declare what a terrible intolerant lot we all are. put it in perspective. generally we are very tolerant. surveys show the "white folks" in Britain respect and hold Muslims in higher esteem than almost all other European countries. it is a fraught time, let us all be sensible and rational as most of us are and not try and score points for our own personal political agendas when ever a news story comes up.

Another incident!

12 Asian looking persons taken off the American NorthWest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Mumbai after fighter jet escort over Germany.

Again the buzz word 'Suspicious behaviour' cited as enough proof.

Pray tell me, someone, what is 'SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR'? Is it the way you sit, fidget or stretch your leg [ perhaps a myoclonus jerk?], what?

And what is this thing called 'suspicious sounding language'? Suspicious to whom?

I think time is coming where airflight will become segregated to 'Asians only' or Africans only' or Caucasians only' if this paranoia is allowed to continue to fester like this.

Slowly and steadily we are moving towards de facto aparthied culture!

Do we call this multiculturism?

Heaven knows what next!

well, Aftab, this looks like phase two (from the point of view of the few actual terrorists, and the government) - war by terror, just like the 'war on terror' (war OF terror) this war to kill our hearts and especially minds is scaring me most because of the seeming power of ideas, to turn the average joe to mush

this is not the way WE were when hitler was on the march, but it is the way his citizens and invaded countries were

like most people of any race, i genuinely feel that society is to the greatest extent enriched by the many peoples in our midst

the poison of race suspicion is one i hope we discover a cure for, these times are quite disturbing, i want US to win, and the nightmare spinners to lose

Newsnight:

Height of summer:

Z list presenter.

Z list editors.

Newsnight Agenda:

Lets continue to harp on about 'Flying while Asian'. (Ali Dezai is currently a guest editor & the sun shines out of his arse)

Lets get our Z list presenter to ask inane questions such as: "Why do you think you were thrown of the plane?".

I suggest the presenter and editorial team seek promotion to the 'political' department of HEAT magazine.

I'm bemused by the people blaming the two Asian guys and demanding that they apologise! Apologise for what? The hysteria of their fellow passengers. It may be understandable that such hysteria exists, given the frenzy the government and media have contrived to whip up, but how are these passengers to blame for it?

They had been checked by security several times - if you don't trust security, then don't fly. How simple is that? As for wearing suspicious clothing - please, get a grip.

I agree that the standard of interviewing from Emily is poor, and she was poor on London news too.

Like Leanne C, I wish to comment on the confrontation between the American "gentleman" and the French foreign minister concerning the sending of French troops to the Lebanon, and I cannot see there is any other place to do so. The feedback part of this website seems to be moribund - last updated 11 July - so it will have to be here, I suppose.
While utterly deploring the sheer rudeness and patronising manner of the "gentleman" (whose name I am glad to say I have completely forgotten), I feel there was at least a gain: we were permitted to see him in his true and horrid self because he was not pulled up short by the presenter.
Would the blogmaster please make it clear where in future we can post comments for which there is no obvious opening?

Just a quick word on racial profiling and terrorists- prior to September 11 2001, the worst terrorist attack on American soil was carried out by Timothy McVeigh. He was not a member of Al-Qaeda, he was not paid by Qaddafi or the Ayatollah, and he was not islamic, let alone "asian". He was a Good ole Boy from the US of A, trained by the Marine Corp. Now what are the chances that racial profiling would find someone like him? Racial profiling not only promotes hysteria among the community and promotes those who are totally unqualified to do so to decide who is a threat, but it also narrows our vision so greatly that we may actually miss a very real threat.

Personally, I have far more faith in my fellow British citizens classed as Asians (irrespective of faith) to understand the regrettable need for profiling techniques given the current threat (as long as it remains).

But vested interests of different religious/pressure/politics groups wish to make something out of this professional reaction of security forces to the current threat.

Of course the supposed illiberal 'intelligentsia' & liberal left would like the police to be burdened by 'failed multiculturalism' version of profiling …. stop everyone or even stop no one (in case you offended them)

Profiling as part of any security response, is not there to eliminate a threat but to make it harder for the terrorist (deterrent) and/or leads them to make greater efforts at concealment (logistical & time burden) which can lead to more abnormal chatter & activity which can give their game away.

92% of the UK classed as caucasian, 8% of the population classed as ethnic (various skin colours) [1]

Correct me if I am wrong, 100% of domestic Islamic Terrorism in the UK has been attributed to people of ethnicity?

So given those state, how should our police react … target everyone? even those majority groups who pose the smallest/no amount of risk.

btw - when blue rinse pensioners from Burnley start carrying out suicide bombing, more than willing to help the police raid retirement homes in Lancashire.

vikingar

[1]

Vikingar writes..."So given those state, how should our police react … target everyone? even those majority groups who pose the smallest/no amount of risk."

Wake up buddy, the police do target everyone from kids to granmas as terrorists - don't you keep up to date with the Law and tghe News ?

Ref WHAT A JERK #76

"Wake up buddy, the police do target everyone from kids to granmas as terrorists - don't you keep up to date with the Law and tghe News ?"

... err which polic force? which country? what examples (esp children & pensioners)?

vikingar

Here's your answers, 'chief'

ALL, [in] MOST, [and] MANY

Google: Police Oppression of Free Speech in Western Democracies, or variations thereof

Ref WHAT A JERK #78

"Google: Police Oppression of Free Speech in Western Democracies, or variations thereof"

.... ah the old shotgun generalisation approach :)

... next

vikingar

JERK say, shotgun blast find many victims

JERK say, shotgun blast indescriminate, but always find target

Try Googling: Police Oppression of Free Speech in Western Democracies, or variations thereof

You never know, you might learn something, or would that compromise your 'views'

:P

BYE BYE !

Ref Jaffer Manesk #58

"This pathetic episoide shows two things: (1) how the British public is become victim of Zionist media manipulation (2) how the British society continues to decline with time. Are the Brits capable of emerging from such ongoing decline? I asked an Englishman, a university professor, I met in Cyprus if airline passengers flying from say Zurich to say Shangahi be deprived of hand luggage and he answered with an emphatic no. So, this episode is a consequence to Britain for its foreign policy by being so biased towards Zionists. Is the British public so gullible and helpless to improve its destiny by appointing better leaders?"

What you call 'decline' we call progress & development. All change leads to flux, though not all change desirable & that’s our debate, what levels of change do we want top end or base end & obviously who sponsors the change & what is their motives.

The UK's development has never been set in aspic, read up on some British History :)

It’s a consequence of terrorism that we are need to conduct racial profiling, whilst that type of terrorism is prevalent.

Our foreign policy counters & disrupts & prevents Islamic Extremists plans, yep we can do a better job at it, but withdrawal from conflict ('run away' policy) will not bring an end to Islamic Extremism - a naïve/dishonest argument.

FYI - when Swiss & Chinese travellers become a threat, lets target them :)

As to British having a Zionist media? you do need to watch the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú more, if coverage recent Lebanon's spat anything to go by, beeb leanings are not towards Israel (rarely ever have been).

Mainstream British Media echoes the discerning temperament of the British Society (if it was not, it would not sell anything) who are well aware of the differences between terror states & terror groups (mostly Islamic) their mantra & atrocities versus the policy & action of accountable democratic progressive societies (which makes mistakes & errors, but whose intentions are mostly constructive).

"Is the British public so gullible and helpless to improve its destiny by appointing better leaders?"

Pray tell, which political system & nation do you hail from which presume to make judgement? - yep our British system full of gloriously big contradictions & flaws at times - but it works & is very successful thank you very much :)

FYI - British political parties has members, members & leadership decide on MP candidate lists (MP's getting elected) & in general the party members & Mp's elect the party leader (an elected MP) who in turn may become the Prime Minister, if the party wins the election (first part the post).

Again read up on some British history & learn of the journey this nation has taken & continues to travel (unlike so many other societies who are treading water and/or doing the back stroke into history).

vikingar

Ref Jaffer Manesk #58

"This pathetic episoide shows two things: (1) how the British public is become victim of Zionist media manipulation (2) how the British society continues to decline with time. Are the Brits capable of emerging from such ongoing decline? I asked an Englishman, a university professor, I met in Cyprus if airline passengers flying from say Zurich to say Shangahi be deprived of hand luggage and he answered with an emphatic no. So, this episode is a consequence to Britain for its foreign policy by being so biased towards Zionists. Is the British public so gullible and helpless to improve its destiny by appointing better leaders?"

What you call 'decline' we call progress & development. All change leads to flux, though not all change desirable & that’s our debate, what levels of change do we want top end or base end & obviously who sponsors the change & what is their motives.

The UK's development has never been set in aspic, read up on some British History :)

It’s a consequence of terrorism that we are need to conduct racial profiling, whilst that type of terrorism is prevalent.

Our foreign policy counters & disrupts & prevents Islamic Extremists plans, yep we can do a better job at it, but withdrawal from conflict ('run away' policy) will not bring an end to Islamic Extremism - a naïve/dishonest argument.

FYI - when Swiss & Chinese travellers become a threat, lets target them :)

As to British having a Zionist media? you do need to watch the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú more, if coverage recent Lebanon's spat anything to go by, beeb leanings are not towards Israel (rarely ever have been).

Mainstream British Media echoes the discerning temperament of the British Society (if it was not, it would not sell anything) who are well aware of the differences between current crops of terror states & terror groups (mostly Islamic) their mantra & atrocities versus the policy & action of accountable democratic progressive societies (which makes mistakes & errors, but whose intentions are mostly constructive).

"Is the British public so gullible and helpless to improve its destiny by appointing better leaders?"

Pray tell, which political system & nation do you hail from which presume to make judgement? - yep our British system full of gloriously big contradictions & flaws at times - but it works & is very successful thank you very much :)

FYI - British political parties has members, members & leadership decide on MP candidate lists (MP's getting elected) & in general the party members & Mp's elect the party leader (an elected MP) who in turn may become the Prime Minister, if the party wins the election (first part the post).

Again read up on some British history & learn of the journey this nation has taken & continues to travel (unlike so many other societies who are treading water and/or doing the back stroke into history).

vikingar

Humans are innately prejudiced, its a survival mechanism. While I find the act repugnant I also find it understandable. This is not a political problem per se but a human one.

As to whther rhetoric by Tony Blair about a clash of ideology and a 'crescent' of extremism is helpful to allay fears is debatable.

While this isolated case is regrettable, proper profiling would ensure passengers don't take matters into their own hands.

Profiling is used in all crime solving or prevention, such as many serial killer tend to be caucasian and male. etc...

"What are these people going to do if they have to fly in Asia or Middle East? Are they going to ask most of the passengers to be removed from a plane?"

That is very funny.

If they are this scare dof two people that are from the subcontinent, I doubt they'd fly to a country of millions of such people.

"Again read up on some British history & learn of the journey this nation has taken & continues to travel (unlike so many other societies who are treading water and/or doing the back stroke into history)."

While I agree that Britain si light years of ahead of many countires in terms of freedom and equality, we live in no utopia, so to halt progression because 'we are doing well' isn't really a valid argument.

It would be interesting to know which societies are doing the backstroke. hehe.

I just thought I would show you how annoying it is when someone takes your writing and uses it as a platform for discussion. It is really annoying, it sounds so preachy!

Not at all :)

Halt progression? no - safeguard what we have, deal with the threat & move forward.

In wartime, all peacetime norms cannot be maintained.

vikingar

don't worry about vikingar, he's a fascist apologist :)

Ref: Gail 8

"The last time I flew back to Canada from the UK I was selected for additional examination at the entrance to the departure lounge. Looking at the other people pulled over, it seemed to me that women of a WASPy and grandmotherly appearance were being selected on that day. What a waste of time and resources! Apologise in advance to those who are likely to experience the closer inspection and get on with the job!"

You do realise that they may have been responding to specific intelligence, drug smugglers are often unlikely looking people, often older, or travelling with kids.

Profiling is a stupid idea, search everyone who do not search everyone, what does a terrorist look like? 'asian' 'middle eastern', 'black' 'white', remember not all south asians are muslim and not all muslim are asians, it would make much more sense to search everyone regardless of their background and in that way we will be safe!