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Political mortality

Nick Robinson | 12:27 UK time, Monday, 8 October 2007

brownconf.jpgConcede and move on. That is the advice which Gordon Brown has clearly taken to heart. So, he has just admitted it was his decision to prepare for an election and his mistake not to make up his mind to call it off earlier.

Many voters may welcome that candour and consider this story at an end. He risks, however, the charge of being a "ditherer" joining the one that he is a "bottler".

I do not believe that this is, in any sense, a mortal blow to the PM. The impact is, instead, that he has given a blood transfusion to his enemy just as he was fighting for political life.

Comments

  • 1.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • slochd wrote:

I think he'll live to fight another day. Gordon Brown is showing though not as statesman like as his predecesser - that he's now walk over.

  • 2.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Tor wrote:

If he:
I want the chance in the next phase of my premiership to develop and show people the policies that are going to make a huge difference


Why not have the election he still maintains he would win so he can have 4/5 years to make a difference?

  • 3.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Richard wrote:

I'm horrified that this jumped up little usurper has seen fit to call off an snap-election on the grounds that we need to experience "his vision" before we can decide that we want rid of him.

  • 4.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Marvin Gaye II wrote:

He keeps talking about "Change",and showing he can change Britain for the better. But he has been central to the government's power for over 10 years, through much of that time effectively in charge of domestic policy. The change required is him.

  • 5.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Babs wrote:

Nick, you talk about his candour but at no point when I was listening did he concede that he changed his mind because of the polls.

  • 6.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • John wrote:

I sense a sea-change.

Brown looked rattled and shifty; but he was also astonishingly boring, with his endless repetitive phrases about 'my vision', and so on.

That's a real and visible contrast with Cameron, who looked fresh, honest and open during his speech.

  • 7.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Steve Brown wrote:

Of course his "first instinct" would have been against a snap election. Mr Brown (no relation) is a coward, and therefore of course his instinct would be against such a decisive action.

And as for 鈥渢aking responsibility鈥 for the election speculation, of course he has to say that. No one else was willing to take the blame for him.

  • 8.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Chris wrote:

I imagine the media love-in with Brown will be over now. I was always a bit bemused by this - when Blair did his sob story earlier in the year about the media being too hard on him, most responded that they had been too soft, but then made the same "mistake" with Brown.

On Saturday, Brown decided to get Andrew Marr to do his announcement for him, which didn't impress the press either.

  • 9.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Rich wrote:

"Candour" is not the word that springs to mind Nick. It takes quite a generous leap of imagination to come to that conclusion. "Spin" is closer, but we were told that he was a conviction polictian..........Ooops!

  • 10.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Alexander wrote:

Given the situation, it's as well as he could have handled it. However, he skirts the issues of why he wanted an election in the first place, and why he backed out.

Candour is all very well, but he hasn't actually answered any of the hard questions... he's just owned up to (some of) what we all knew already.

  • 11.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Neil Small wrote:

He's trying to kill of the story, and will probably succeed. The question is: why did he decide to go for a snap election? He must be expecting mroe problems in the next few months, most likely the economy and almost certainly Iraq. It may appear to be a cynical observation but he made all the leaks and noises about a possible early election, only for it to blow up in his face.

  • 12.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Jeremy Poynton wrote:

No, all he's done is show he will do anything to stay in power, and that that, rather than the well-being of the nation, is more important to him.

Ergo - time to go. We know his policies anyway; tax us to the hilt, and then throw the money away, numero uno; two, disappear when the going gets tough, three, say goodbye to spin, then fly tio Iraq to spin like crazy.

The man is sick and nasty.

Ergo - time to go. Him and the rest of the pods grown in 10 Downing Street, who go "Yes Gordon, No Gordon, Three bags full, Gordon"

  • 13.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • wrote:

The only reasons for Brown to call an election would have been: I lack a majority, I've used up my legislative timetable, or I face a defining crisis.

Of course, society faces a defining crisis, climate change, but none of the three main parties are calling for an election to forge a common war-footing on it.

"I want a bigger majority than Tony, so it proves I'm better than him" is not a valid reason.

Two conclusions:

i) Gordon Brown's "bounce" in his first three months was built on, a), dealing with war/pestilence/flooding crises, and, b), shifting Labour's policies away from a Blairite position to something closer to that of his party, on Iraq, city academies, Bush, sofa government, and spin.

ii) It was a very shallow bounce. Otherwise, a tax pledge and a speech without autocue wouldn't equal all the summer/autumn crisis-management. That's the danger for Labour in the Tory charge that he's a bottler/ditherer. Even after being Shadow Chancellor and Chancellor for 15 years, the public don't know him, and he's gifted the Tories a chance to "brand" him.

  • 14.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Justin wrote:

Nick,

Can you stop keep trying to shout over the Prime Minister after he's told you you're only ebtitled to only one question.

And can you (the media) stop keep blaming the PM when it was the media who hyped up all this election nonsense.

  • 15.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Krishn Shah wrote:

Nick,
I note you were very careful to say "the voters" may accept his "candour and consider this story at an end". I'm pretty sure the journalists don't accept this explanation.

The main mistake he made over recent weeks was that he thought he could treat the media like fools because of the positive coverage he'd got over the summer.

He made mistakes in not indicating his view on an election earlier, his taking only selected journalists to Iraq and his apparent favouritism to one when giving his final decision.

I'm sure he said he would have supported Scotland if they'd met England in the Rugby World Cup. Odd considering all this talk of Britishness recently.

  • 16.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Sally C wrote:

Nick
I have just watched News 24's coverage of the Iraq statementand a very upset S.A.S man's reaction to it.Are you going to give them a voice Nick, or will it be glossed over because it does not fit the brief. I don't know how any of us sleep at night?

  • 17.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • John Constable wrote:

Its just another brick in the (Brown) wall.

To add to the Maxwell flat, the Ecclestone saga and the pensions robbery, amongst other Brown debits.

In the end, the English people will decide that it makes sense for English politicians to run England, not professional politicians from other countries, such as Scotland.

They (English professional politicians) will probably turn out to be just as 'unreliable' as those from 'elsewhere' but they will be our English 'unreliables', and in that sense, there will be some meaningful accountability.

  • 18.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Surja wrote:

are we discussing the same news conference? When did he concede that he made a mistake? His convulated explanations were rather painful to watch, a bit like a school boy caught in the error and trying his utmost to wriggle out of it somehow. Nick, defend Gordon if you want, but make it a bit more subtle

  • 19.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Emma Potts wrote:

Of course he keeps talking about CHANGE and VISION---he nicked both of these terms from Cameron's conference speech. (Just like he's nicked so many other things from the Tories, for he has no fresh ideas of his own.)
As for his exclusive interview with Andrew Marr (to announce his election climbdown), of course he did that as well---Andrew Marr is notoriously (and sadly) short on killer questions when doing an
interview.

God help this country if we have to wait two more years to give this bloke the boot.

  • 20.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Adam wrote:

I just loved his story about needing time to change the country. Given that he's been right at the heart of a government that's been in power for 10 years already, how much more time does he need? Or is he acknowledging that the Blair government was a disaster and that he needs to change everything that Blair did?

In any case, none of this really matters. Brown is not really as stupid as we all seem to think he is. Yes, deciding not to call an election makes him seem weak and indecisive. But that doesn't matter, because there isn't going to be an election any time soon. He was really in a no-lose situation.

  • 21.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Max Sceptic wrote:

Brown is damaged goods.

After the outrage of his Iraqi announcement and bottling out of an early election, never again will he - or his party - be able to clain that he is a man of principle, courage, integrity or conviction. (Not that he ever was, but that was the public perception).

  • 22.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Albert wrote:

Nick, will you be asking Dave to supply you with the list of the so called non domicile millionaires, so that you can analyse whether the tax cut of 拢3.5 BILLION adds up?
There's plenty of time now!

  • 23.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • E Welshman wrote:

What do Labour politicians need to do before you in the 麻豆官网首页入口 take them to task ?

Blair got away with one deceit after another, and now Brown is starting to do the same. All you say is "never mind, put it all behind you, and we'll help you carry on as if nothing has happened."

Time for a change at the 麻豆官网首页入口 too. Both the 麻豆官网首页入口 and Labour are using our money to help each other.

  • 24.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Albert wrote:

Nick, will you be asking Dave to supply you with the list of the so called non domicile millionaires, so that you can analyse whether the tax cut of 拢3.5 BILLION adds up?
There's plenty of time now!

  • 25.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Justin wrote:

Reading some of these comments the British public don't appear capable of choosing the right man to run the country.

David Cameron only cares about the rich. He is, in effect, a Tory to the core.

You're all worried about paying inheritance tax but it only applies to 94 percent of the population. Only the 6 percent who are "super-rich" pay inheritance tax.
The chances of you, Joe Public, paying inhertiance tax are minute. So why stick up for rich people who don't give a damn about you?

And the thing is, some of you will still vote for the Tories naively beieving they care about you.

You might think life is bad under Labour but it'll be a billion times worse under a Tory government - particularly with David Cameron as Prime Minister.

  • 26.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Gareth wrote:

Don't you think Brown looked a bit like Nixon (although he is not so obviously sweaty as the President - or Blair) as he faced down the cameras, the press and the country this afternoon? We know now that Nixon lied but that is, of course, not in the nature of the Prime Minister. He was just being a pretty straight kind of guy - oh, hold on, that was the other one, wasn't it? Plus ca change...

  • 27.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • Chris Wills wrote:

When a person is lying and the people they are lying to know it and everybody else knows it; where is the courage in continuing with the lie?
Gordon Brown is treating us all with contempt. Even worse his poor judgement and blatant use of spin in the Iraq visit shows me he is exactly the type of politician we have come to despise over these last 10 years.
Nobody would take him to task for speculating about his job; it is only natural to want to be ion a good job for longer. It is the manner in which he did it that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
I wonder what his pastor father would think about his lies?

  • 28.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • nige g wrote:

Nick,
Nice question by the way. Got the impression that the press pack have changed their view on the PM. This is welcome. Is it true that Andrew Marr is a Labour sympathiser. Why else talk to Andy twice in 2 weeks?

Brown's failure to recognise what we all know, that it was "the polls what changed it," shows us all that he is just another version of Blair, but nowhere near as good.

I predict that is downhill all the way from now on.

  • 29.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • quentin edgington wrote:

Nick,

I think this is a 'mortal blow' for Gordon Brown.The turnaround brought about by the Conservative Party is stunning.To go from a position of sure defeat in an election to probable victory is incredable.Also, the Labour Party has not 'rubbished' the Conservatives tax proposals as they try and do with all other policy they bring forward.

They are in trouble.....

  • 30.
  • At on 08 Oct 2007,
  • G Madden wrote:

Bottler? Ditherer? How about 'deceiver'?

He denied that the polls had anything to do with his decision. He also said he listened to the public. He even said the marginals would vote for him.

If he's listening, he'd have responded according to the polls. If he's not, then he's not listening at all. Or he's listening, but has no interest in what we have to say.


He then goes on (and on) about 'vision' and 'aspiration' without putting any substance to those terms.

So: supremacy of parliament (lie), listening to the public (lie), man of substance (lie), end to spin (lie).

Has this PM done anything but decieve us?

  • 31.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Charles E Hardwidge wrote:

I've read an account of the Prime Minister's presentation and watched the highlight. He was sound and reasonable about the affair, which is more than can be said for the opposition parties opportunism, media hysteria, and some of the more nasty and cynical comments. I was disappointed by how this affair developed but the prime Minister has reassured me that he has a proper focus and sensitivity.

The Brown Bounce, stumble, and driving forward with a programme for government remind me of Nigel Mansell winning pole position only to have an accident and start the race in the backup car from the pit lane. With determination and the Williams-Honda chassis under his charge he went on to deliver a magnificent win. I hope, continued sound leadership from the Prime Minister continues to inspire as well.

  • 32.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Brian Ranger wrote:

Those who repeatedly believe they have visions usually need mental help - or be sectioned

  • 33.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Guy Fox wrote:

Gordon Brown had picked up the sword to slay the Tory dragons... who would not hesitate to privatize (corp-ratize) the NHS and all the public roads. But alas! The PM dithered and withered before his political enemies, using his sword to dig a grave for Labour's defeat down the road.

  • 34.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Paul Davies wrote:

Nick
Brown never intended calling an election. This was a political game to flush out the Tories policies and fluster them during their conference week.
Now he can usurp their ideas in the budget.
Snowballed out of control, I agree, from the younger cabinet members with the media feeding on it. If anything it just covered his tracks.
Hes waited decades, would Brown really risk it all after 5 mins? An inveterate game player - we are all just his pawns, tax payers, pension holders, journalists, soldiers, voters.


  • 35.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • John Galpin wrote:

To me he has the air of a failed priest. I think he is just beginning to realise that much of the job just isn't what he thought it was. Yet he has no choice but stand in the pulpit, knowing that he chose to be there and increasingly aware that many of the parishioners can't wait for the service to end.

Sorry Mr Brown but your undoubted skills aren't those that fit this job, you are 100 years too late.

  • 36.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • trisha wrote:

Candour?? why, what do mean candour?? GB has been caught out red handed, GB gives a little spin on, his blatant attempt to manipulate election, and you call that candour, the labour party, 麻豆官网首页入口, and media in general between them has completely undermined British democracy.

  • 37.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Stephen Wookey wrote:

Nick

I am amazed that you actually credit GB with candour.

The PM in his press conference yesterday constantly denied that his decision not to hold an election had anything to do with opinion polls. Yet everyone knows that it had everything to do with them - it was all Labour politicians (not just the media) had talked about for over a week. He had a pollster amongst his closest advisers.

What GB said was in effect, in the views of everyone listening to him, and indeed, I suspect, most of the country, an outrageous lie. How can he retain any credibility?

The biggest charge against GB is not that he is a ditherer - although he obviously is - or a bottler - ditto! But that he deliberately and consistently lied at the press conference. Does that not matter at all now?

  • 38.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Chris Wills wrote:

This last week has exposed Brown as somebody who hasn't got sound judgement and who resorts to spin and deceit when under pressure.
The most amusing thing for me about the whole election fever was that nobody noticed that Brown's polling was based on a time when Parliament was not sitting, hence no Prime Ministers Questions and no exposure to the kind of scrutiny he and his team will now be subjected to.
I wonder Nick, how many of his cabinet have actually had a proper job? And of course, the problems over a Scottish PM deciding policy over England is bound to resurface at appropriate moments. And now his heavy borrowing is set to come back and haunt him.
Nobody blames him for considering a longer contract, any person would do the same if the opportunity presents; it was his shabby and deceitful handling of it that leaves a sour taste in the mouth. And the hint that he might not be the safe and secure hands he likes to make out. Bottler Brown won't be able to hide now Parliament is sitting; I expect his personal ratings to suffer as we learn more about him and his crew of career politicians.

  • 39.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • wrote:

Nick,

Brown got caught in a trap of his own making and instead of coming clean he still tried to blame others and spin the story, that is not 'candour'.

Perhaps you should ask him next time how much this phoney election cost the taxpayer.

  • 40.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • wrote:

I really think the Prime Minister has been in the job too long. He looks worn out. His only remaining instinct is to try to stamp the Conservative Party into the dust and to survive...This man has inherited a huge majority of spineless Labour M.P.'s in Parliament and yet he seems clueless.

  • 41.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Romsey Rapid wrote:

I think that the reason for the possibility of a snap election is quite obvious. Gordon Brown along with many in the Labour Party were looking at one prize only. The chance to govern for another ten years.
The strategy was to panic the Tories into a knee jerk reaction at their conference and make them announce policies that had not been properly thought through.
The purpose of this was to then allow the Labour Party to totally discredit these policies. A snap election would then have been called and Labour would have trashed the Tory policies in an election camaign leading to a thumping Labour majority. Cameron would then be deposed as Tory leader and who would they turn to next?
I am no fan of Gordon Brown by a long way but when he said that he would take the same decision whatever the polls came out with after the Tory conference is he actually (and for once) telling the truth? Was the reason for calling off the election nothing to do with the polls but actually because he couldn't attack the Tory policies with the certainty that he required.
If this is the case then Cameron's decision to set up the policy commissions from the start of his leadership looks to be both brilliant and courageous. Brilliant because he has allowed each commission to take the time to really study and evolve some alternative policies that will resonate with the electorate. Courageous because he must have known that it would leave a policy vacuum that both Labour and Liberal Demcrats as well as some members of his own party would attack him on.

  • 42.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Robert wrote:

...Life blood given to the Conservatives when they were about to expire?

Thank you for reminding me that under Thatcher the government did all it possibly could to cut off Labour Party funding from the trades unions.

  • 43.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • John L wrote:

Nick

Maybe GB thought about it - of course he did. He is a politician. Only the journos are wetting themselves.

But maybe the rumours were deliberate in order to flush out policies and wind up the Tories and LDs.

In that, GB has been very effective as the Tories released a policy on inheritance tax in order to get some headlines that is obviously popular. Clearly the Tories haven't heard of a Pareto distribution let alone double taxation relief.

  • 44.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • George wrote:

Why does Brown keep saying "if I was being honest with you" in press conferences. Does he normally not bother being honest with us?

  • 45.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • David Smith wrote:

If there was a election and he won it we would here nothing but how great the party is and nothing but praise for the British people, but if he lost the 'would have been' election I wonder what lame duck excuses would be offered, probably no praise for the victor nor the British people.

Ditherer or not his body language tells more than he actually does - I wouldn't liked to have been his finger nails... all chewed up.

  • 46.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • brendan wrote:

Seemingly every morning when the PM is about to leave Number 10 Sara Brown says, "Don't forget your Mandate Gordon?"

Can this be true? If it is, I can see why Election fever got running so close to the Christmas Panto season.

Cheery Labour MP's: "Any chance of a snap Election Gordon?"

Old buffer in blue suit with pair of Green Flash plimsoles and look of panic: "Oh no there can't be,,,!!!"

Labour MP's waving rail tickets with Bournemouth on: "Oh yes there is!"

Massed ranks of Fleet Street hacks momentarily looking up from each others' Blogs: "Oh yes there is! Let's get over to BetFair before the odds shorten."

Mr David Cameron: "Oh no....let me re-phrase that. According to my notes on Inheritance Tax, Oh, yes there is!"

Gordon Brown stumbling over a vast pile of Red Boxes: "Hang on. I'm just polishing up my Vision. Sara have put my Mandate somewhere? Perhaps wee John Brown's got it?"

  • 47.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Robert Crease wrote:

Mr Brown has succesfully badgered Blair out off the top job and is increasingly showing what he is made of, a difficult, dithering, false personality, in fact none of us are sure what his personality is all about, has he got one? is he in touch with the general public, so far he has succesfully ousted, the beloved tony with spoilt child tactics, and he thinks without vote the public want him, without being democratically elected, surely this is a recipe for handing power to the conservatives

  • 48.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Richard P.Nebel wrote:

Dear Nick......
The fundamental issue that Politicians of all parties have to face, especially 'Bottler Brown' is the continued exodus of people from all corners of the British Isles. Disillusionment with politics and the broken promises, punitive taxation and the rising tide of immigration from all corners of the World. Here in Cyprus there is a community ever swelling of more than 50,000 Brits and Eireans never mind the 90,000 Russians and other Europeans. Sadly, in a way, we are transferring
the problem of overwhelming immagratory numbers to another country but,if things were right at home, only a small number would desert the Mother Country. I would love to spend my final years in the country of my birth but quite frankly, I would become a burden to the State. I and so many others, could not survive in the overcrowded
unsafe and overtaxed haven for the world's disenchanted.
Consider this.....In the final years of Tony's reign, the rules for expatriates were changed. If and when we come home - no National Health Service or Social Assistance for us for 6 months ! Yet refugees and other Europeans etc., qualify immediately for State handouts!
Political survival is judged by positive leadership, cutting to the will of the electorate and fullfilling their needs and desires as well as facing up to truths of Britain's failing immigration policy.
Dithering about an election and trying to appease the opponents of the international attempts to contain the world wide threat of terrorism which so clearly eminates from the radical elements of Islam, is a cheap pre - election manipulation of the reason why so many of our brave servicemen have died and been maimed for life.
Political mortality will face David Cameron as surely as it does to Gordon Brown unless we get a grip of our Nation and follow the lead Of Australia's John Howard.
Please, no more morally appealing pleadings about what the future might hold under this unelected Prime Minister, cut the unfulfilled promises & the taxes and give us all some real hope for the young as well as the old.
P.S. Both my children see their future anywhere but the UK...How sad.

  • 49.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • CC wrote:

I thought that pre-electioneering was the absolutely correct time to 'set out your vision' for the country - that's what we vote on!

  • 50.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Ian H wrote:

Does anybody agree with the comment on newnight last night that this actually snookers the Tories ?

They have effectively announced their election manifesto before an election was called ! Brown and Darling will undoubtedly steal their clothes and make Camerons life very difficult.

  • 51.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Quietzapple wrote:

Of course the Tories have committed themselves to tax plans which don't add up, and will be subject to massive and damaging evasion as rhe more useful foreign workers in the lower end of the income bracket which atarts at 拢100, 000 either leave or plan evasion if it looks like the Tories have any chance of winnig in 2 years or so.

Likewise MacCamaroon has been bullied into agreeing policies he doesn't like to try and keep his party united.

Gordon Brown, on the other hand, has stood strong and decided on the elction issue as he planned, and retains a free hand.

I wonder if this is the time for a shrewd "investment" with my local bookmaker . . .

The logical bet is on the Tories at the longest odds one can get, becasue in the unlikely event that they won, emmigration might proove costly.

  • 52.
  • At on 09 Oct 2007,
  • Quietzapple wrote:

"Nick,

Can you stop keep trying to shout over the Prime Minister after he's told you you're only ebtitled to only one question.

And can you (the media) stop keep blaming the PM when it was the media who hyped up all this election nonsense."

Agree totally.

Old Nick seems to think that the fact that Gordon Brown considered an autumn poll, and decided, in his own good time, not to, justifies the scurrilous and hysterical media behaviour of which he is a leader.

And, when Gordon Brown said he might have made his decision earlier, this is turned into a validation of the complete nonsense the Conservative Press have made of our national politics for quite some time now.

It is quite untruthful to say that this is an imitation of the Tories' conference policies.

No mention likeley of the increase in spending on countering Terrorism over the next 3 years.

Or the doctors and others who will not now be driven from the country by adoption of the Tory policy on foreign non domicile higher earners.

But then the froth of those who yell because they have so little hold on reality signifies so very little.

  • 53.
  • At on 10 Oct 2007,
  • Robbie wrote:

I agree with you Nick - GB can be very dour!!!

Had a busy day today transfering ALL my savings off-shore and applying for non-dom status.

Who said politics was boring?

  • 54.
  • At on 15 Oct 2007,
  • Duncan wrote:

Will our Scottish Prime Minister and his co Scottish Cabiniet Members Messrs.Darling Browne and Alexander (you know, the ones that promote government for ALL the people) put aside the "West Lothian Question" and not only be present and but also support our English World Cup Rugby finalists next Saturday?

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