The Glass Box for Thursday
The Glass Box is the place where you can comment on what you heard on PM, interact with other listeners and get responses from the people who make the programme. This is proving to be a useful tool for us, and we hope, for you.
Just click on the "comment" link.
Don't worry either if you didn't catch the whole programme, or were busy doing other things and not giving us your full attention. If there was something that "caught your ear" we want to hear about it.
The Glass Box is named after the booth outside the PM studio where we all discuss the programme at 18.00 every weeknight. We try to be honest and constructive. Sometimes there is criticism, and the criticised get a chance to explain themselves.
The people who make PM will read the comments posted, and will sometimes respond. Unless it's Roger Sawyer editing. He's completely hopeless.
Please feel free to post your thoughts. There is a link to previous Glass Boxes on the right.
Also on the right, you'll find lots of other links you might like. The Furrowed Brow for example is the venue where you can start talking about anything serious: The Beach is a fun place, and there are links to Blog entries with photos, audio and links. And if you want to see us drone on about awards, you can do that too.
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Mind the Gap!
BTW Carolyn Quinn you were spot on. Well done!
I enthusiastically second Ffred's motion!
i.e. that coverage of the Bliar non-event be kept to an absolute minimum, if not completely ignored.
Enuff!"
xx
ed
ALAN DUNCAN, Shadow Trade and Industry and Energy Secretary
CLARE SHORT, former Labour cabinet member and now independent MP
SIMON HUGHES, Liberal Democrat President
A good line up for AQ tomorrow night. We'll all be listening, Eddie!
Okay, so I was spot on for Peter Hain .....
Now, will Eddie make it a pigeon pair?
Yes Mr Blair, this was indeed one of the greatest countries in the World until you and your cronies destroyed all that with your spin and your lies. If we were saying goodbye to a man of stature and integrity then I would be the first to join in the plaudits - but I'm just so relieved that we are finally rid of a sharp and mendacious little lawyer. Good riddance.
CG
Crowborough
East Sussex
Trust the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú to go totally overboard. Is this a 'slow news day' I wonder? Have you never heard of 'news management' and has it not occurred to you that you have fallen for it - as usual?
When Mr. Blair told people to 'give the impossible a chance', was he making a (not v.) oblique reference to his Chancellor?
Just a thought.
I have to say I am outraged at the latest announcement re the ID card scheme - an increase of 400 million pounds? Why! I am a Project Manager in IT and every project we run is scrutinised down to the last penny - we have to jump through hoops to ensure our business case is watertight before we get the go ahead just to start, and any increases in cost have to fully justified to the nth degree. And quite rightly - we have a duty to ensure company profits are protected and a duty to the shareholders. So why the hell can the Government get away with spending such an unbelievably extortionate amount of money on something we, as the country's shareholders, have no say over?! Following the whole Enron scandal years ago an act was passed in the US (Sarbanes Oxley) which essentially makes companies much much more accountable for the way that their finances are managed and changes implemented. So why can this not apply to our Government? Its the millenium dome saga all over again - I guarantee in another 6 months there will be another announcement of yet another increase and yet again - we poor people have no control over how our money is being spent. Following on from an item on yesterday's programme can you imagine how many special needs children could be given a first class education out of a 5.3 billion pound pot of money? So can someone please tell me where I can find the business case for the ID Card project so I can see exactly what benefits and payback we can expect??? No? I thought as much.....
Could've been worse. He could have sung "My Way" I suppose there's still time though.
Thought the Peter Hain interview was a bit grumpy. He deserved a hard time though.
Well done for seeing past efforts to 'bury bad news' by covering the cost of ID cards and given airtime to the rise in interest rates.
And well done for exposing the blackmail of things like 'family feast'. Ryanair is very bad at this sort of thing. And trademarking the 'bottom pat' by Asda.
For goodness sake !
Excellent programme again.
Fried chicken? ...now there's an idea.
Oh dear, re. the young woman who had cut down on her holidays and have a few less means out with friends because of the interest rate rise. Oh what hardship she has to endure.
When I bought my house some twenty odd years ago there were times when I could barely afford food, heating was was also optional depending on how much I had left at the end of the month.
My heart bleeds.
Hmm... Bonus brownie points for the Peter Hain interrogation and a gold star for getting Ian Hislop and a Private Eye reference in there.
And now Simon Hoggart on a feature about Prezza !!
You are spoiling us Mr Editor - a bit of a classic episode for a historic day ! Keep up the good work.
Great programme, tonight. Well done, all. I listened all the way through for a change and found the balance just about right. I'm sure there was too much TB for many, but your approach worked well and I thought using Carolyn for the political analysis bit was great. It succeeded in breaking up the coverage and she was on good form. Great piece from Hislop, too.
Glad to see Yvonne Murray managed to track down Peter Webb and the comments from him repaid her efforts. You'd have got the Sony award for this story alone, I feel. Shame there was no commitment from Adonis to visit the blog and respond.
Re Clive Goddard (5), isn't this "emotion in excess of the facts"? (slight misquote of T. S.Eliot on the character of Hamlet - as if everyone on this blog didn't know, apart from CG possibly)
Bitchy - of course I am but rather bitchiness than hysteria any day.
Overall a well balanced programme given the pressure PM must have been under to bury the other items of bad news (interest rate rise, another billion or so on his pet ID card project, the dearth of funding for special needs children etc.) to feature a full mawkish retrospective on the man who can still do no wrong.
On the other hand Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú News seem to think that the 'new' news of Blair resigning, an event has been happening for years, is somehow of earth-shattering import and that it deserves the full brown-nosing treatment which has become a hallmark of the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú since the travesty of the Hutton Inquiry. Well done Eddie and team.
Gasp. Given the momentous events of today ...
I wonder if this might be the moment to rename our hamster Pickwick (Family Feast!) Shepherd in the general excitement? Formerly known only as PickwickStopthat! the only difficulty I can foresee is that he is a strictly vegan animal but the sponsorship for supplies of his favourite cosy bedding and healthy snacks would be very welcome given that he is outrageously fond of his food. The local childrena are also raising a colony of garden snails but I don't suppose there's much demand ....
Sent on behalf of Pickwick (Family Feast!)
Mike (12),
I agree! It is, after all, the point of the action! Though I do have sympathy for people who have to take 5 x salary loans just to get somewhere.
Fiona (8),
Each Government IT schemes seems designed as a large hole into which to pour money. Last time such a thing was mentioned, a blogger pointed out that the cost was about £5k per computer, and that £1k would certainly buy a very good one. My estimation (based on seeing some of these computers) was that they cost ~£350 if that.
The current ID cost increase is £6.60 per person in this country, and that's not counting how much we will actually have to pay to obtain one of these useless (to us) or useful (to the state monitoring services) cards.
--------------------
I only hope that having had the Blair retrospective today, we won't have any more retrospectives *at all*, and that includes the day he hands his keys over to the copper on duty in the previous thread.
-------------------
Yvonne's item today. Did you get any comment at all from Lord Adonis or his office today? Should you not have been a bit clearer on that point, rather than inviting him to contribute to the blog?
Did the Blog track down Mr Webb?
Well done, Eddie, for inventing the "evasive question" in your interview with Peter Hain. PH was in the early stages of trying to reply to one of your queries when you told him to do just that. Attention deficit disorder perhaps or maybe I didn't hear you aright?
Whichever, I thought that for once a politician's answer was better than the question.
At last someone at the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú has asked "Where's Gordon?". Unfortunately though, the question was asked of Peter Hain, and his reply that "Gordon was busy running the Treasury" was accepted without a murmer. So "nul point" Eddie.
Brown disappeared totally from public view after last Thursday's elections and didn't reappear till PMQ's yesterday. Is there possibly something known within the Westminster Village about Brown's habits that explain these regular disappearances, in much the same way that Charlie Kennedy's problems were widely known but kept secret?
In relation to dyslexia my wife and I have been horrified by the revelation that two local families of ample means were discovered to have dyslexic children. Oh, I forgot to say that one of them had by that time achieved startlingly good A level results and was at university where he was given – yes GIVEN - a state of the art computer by the government agency which took up his case. The other individual discovered her affliction during her successful application to Oxbridge on her way to her startlingly good A level results. We do not know what assistance she received. We are aghast. How on earth can needy children be ignored in favour of these highly privileged individuals? Something is badly wrong here.
Well there's no need to write a new script for 27th June......that item has been well and truly covered by tonight's PM. And we have the dubious pleasure of hearing it all again, and again and again.....
Clive Goddard is completely correct (17:14pm)...in my case ten years ago I was celebrating with a beautiful Botswana girlfriend on my lap in UWE accommodation (mature student) going mad with excitement that a bunch of rich neo-brutes had partly been overthrown...today I am ten years old, just as poor in relative terms celebrating with a glass of red wine in hand....lovely girlfiend long gone home that Blair is leaving No 10 (not too bright and no intellectual) and very disappointed that he had virtually has gone down the same road of Thatcher et al (the wrong route for most us on the Left)....and probably the main reason that between 30 to 50% of the population would like to leave the country...including me!!
PS: Perhaps he should read Gangster Capitalism by Michael Woodiwiss...in his retirement...he may learn something...
Brian V Peck
The PM Gap.
Very well done Eddie. :-)
In the USA we can watch the Blair departure speech over on the Fox News website where the clip of "Blairs Farewell" is but one of 12 to choose from which includes the latest American idol castoff reveals her plans...a steakhouse owner explains why he refused to serve OJ Simpson....Survivor host tells us how to turn our backyard into a relaxing retreat or we can watch Laura Bush giving us a Royal Visit rewind in which she reveals how she and Condi gently goaded Mr B into wearing that white tie.
What a pity there isn't a Tony-Ometer on the site allowing us to see which are the most viewed of these "news" clips.
Agree with earlier comments - Mr PM Editor you did truly spoil us today
The follow up on yesterday's story about special needs in schools was brilliant, and another way you are making interactivity really work with serious news. Shame on Lord Adonis for not playing the game; I thought it was telling that he wouldn't respond to the criticisms by the listeners, since he acted yesterday as if he couldn't be bothered with any opinion that didn't chime with his own.
Also kudos for the KFC coverage. I heard the story on You and Yours this afternoon, and thought you were just jumping on the bandwagon (they've also been covering the children with special needs story for years, in a very comprehensive way), but the academic you had on managed to bring out a whole new set of issues, including the fact that this is about big companies bullying little companies with very little legal justification.
Despite the rather overdone Blair, Blair, Blair, (not a complaint, just the angst of someone who listens to R4 all day) you managed to produce an interesting and varied program.
'cor that Hislop bloke, now e's a larf, 'ad 'im in the back of my cab once....nice bloke...but hadn't a clue where he was going.
Sorry Ed, only caught the last 1/4 hour or so, will listen again later. But it was feast for the ears..as always.
I do hope, Eddie, that you won't let the SEN topic die, or if it's too much for PM to carry on, that you'll pass the torch on to another programme with a high profile.
Alternatively, perhaps Yvonne could put together a separate programme, perhaps with Peter White, as a one off special for prime time transmission?
Eddie,
When you collect together the comments to send to Lord Adonis, can you trawl through the various threads to make sure you catch them all. Most of them are on the main SEN thread from yesterday, but some have crept into other threads from yesterday and today. There must be over a 100 for him to read by now. Some poor researcher in his office is going to be busy for a few days... (I have a touching faith that he won't just stick them in the bin).
Have listened to Blair's speach and found it quite inspirational. Why is it that people like some of the above and Hislop hate him so much? Could it be that their egos are so big that when they come across someone who is clearly more talented than themselves it just hurts them so much that they just have to lash out at the cause.
If so it soes not bode well for democracy when you have so many big egos running the media and trying to influence us all our votes
18 minutes on TB's resignation. I feel it did drag on a bit, but then again it was only 1/3 of the programme. And I doubt Huw Edwards on Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú ONE will guillotine his 10pm coverage after 9 minutes, and Newsnight will probably spent most of the first half hour covering it.
Yawn. Wake me up in July.
Jogo #31
Egos? His could survive a full frontal attack from the Parachute regiment! It's so big he *can* afford to look vunerable, to say "maybe I've not lived up to expectation"!.
PM was first time I heard "the speech". I was completely thrown - One minute reaching for the sick bucket and the next laughing with incredulity. Anyone else reminded of those awful sixties/seventies pop ballads about men sentenced to death for killing on behalf of their Beloved?
"Sun rise this is the last day
that I'll ever see
out in the court-yard
they're ready for me
but I go to my Lord with no fear
'cos I did what I did for Maria."
Blair as Tony Christie? Now there's a thought!
(THURSDAY'S EDITOR)
I think Gillian (23) has got it spot on. We'll burn that programme onto a CD and save ourselves a lot of bother on 27th June.
An event like Tony Blair's departure is a tricky one. It's easy to get swept up and try to cover every cough and spit. Or you can go too far the other way - heart sinking at the prospect of another seven weeks of this - and underplay it.
I think we got it nearly right. There were a couple of Tony Blair related things we dropped and I don't think - as one poster says - we were "news-managed". It's not like we didn't know it was happening and there was not a lot about, but we made space for Interest Rates, ID cards and SEN - on which Yvonne Murray did a fantastic follow up job.
Sorry to disappoint, but we didn't find our man through the blog - just some good old fashioned hacking by Yvonne, with some help from the Interweb.
My personal favourite: the row between KFC and the pub over the words 'Family Feast'. Our interviewee's verdict was "these two words are normal words in the English language. They're just as much trademarks as Colonel Sanders was a real colonel".
Cheery bye
Rog
I thought Mr. Blair sounded a tad 'mawkish' actually. Was it me or did he sound a little less than totally sincere......
No- it must be me I think....!
Mollyxx
mittfh: You were wrong about Newsnight - they ran an extended programme, dedicated to the event of the day. I left it at 11.40, so don't know when it finally ground to a halt. What I did watch I found extremely interesting, as it included a lot of intelligent analysis and some interesting interviews, along with Alastair Campbell in the studio with Jeremy Paxman and neither appearing to want to hit the other.
Tony Ferney;
Blair is indeed a conniving wretch, who dragged this country into an illegal war on the basis of faked evidence. He and his old chums (like Adonis and Campbell) elevated misinformation to an art-form. Their spin has worsened the problem of public trust in politicians.
His associates have funded the party through undeclared 'loans' without informing the Party Treasurer about the money, at the same time trying to reward the donors and creditors for their help by ennobling them. If that isn't mendacious then what is?
Hain attempted to avoid a direct question regarding the virtual disappearance of GB in the wake of the poor local election results last week. This is a hallmark of politicains in situations like this. Answer the question you wish you had been asked, not the one which was really asked. I felt that Eddie was tryng to stop him diving off in the deliberately wrong direction, as such it deserved interruption.
GB has had a marked habit of disappearing whenever there is bad news around. If he tries to maintain the habit when Prime Minister he will find his approval rating disappearing up its own jacksie. He will drag the Labour party down with him if he tries to avoid his responsibilities.
Brian (24);
Don't bitch about it, just leave. You've had books published on your conspiracy theories and may well be able to afford it. New Zealand is nice, I hear.
Jogo;
Talented, but at what? Spin, lies and deceit... Not much to admire about those character traits. And speaking of big ego, Blair has one of the largest around. Remeber his parting speech to the Party "I will always be with you.." etc. As previously spoken by Christ before parting from the Apostles after resurrection. He referred to Messianic Zeal, and he should know, he has it in spades.
Roger the editor;
You'll gather that many Bloggers don't want an endless diet of Brown and the Labour leadership for the next two months. Indeed, you seem to agree yourself? I'll add my voice to theirs. If there is something genuinely fresh and newsworthy then please inform us. If not then do what you all do best and bring us informed and insightful coverage of real news about real people.
Si.
Sorry it's taken me this long to get round to posting. I thought Yvonne's follow up on SEN was excellent - taking each point from the Adonis interview and picking it apart with help from those who actually have to deal with the practical issues - and well done on tracking down Peter, and good on him for agreeing to be interviewed.
I also liked the KFC item, having heard it on You and Yours earlier. A great window on the bullying and hypocritical nature of big business, and a worth contribution from the academic guest.
I am now more than fed up with the Blair story, but, given an earlier thread of Eddies, I was highly amused to hear the News at Ten saying the words "assessing his legacy". Again.
Never got a chance to post again last night but I just wanted to say I thought it was an excellent (even more so than normal) programme - of course it was a big news day but it kept me interested all the way through. Please continue the special needs story. And Ian Hislop - briliiant!
Well for a change I heard quite a lot of the programme last night, & I loved it. I could listen to Eddie & Ian Hislop natter on for ages - two of my favourite people. You just know they'll be interesting. And frankly, most of the news stories that I pay attention to are usually from Private Eye, if not from PM.
Very telling that their was a great big silence from Lord Adonis after the previous day's interview. He must be hoping it will all go away.
I found it impossible to listen to Mr Blair's speech without adding in the hand gestures. And did he really say "-no, really-" in the middle of a phrase. Just who is writing his speeches these days? Rory Bremner? It's a bit worrying when the original out-parodies itself.
By an odd stroke of fortune I was involved in playing for a military event last night. When I mentioned TB's name to a soldier (having just come in from listening to PM in the car) you would have thought I'd sworn or blasphemed. It was very humbling looking at all these men who had been putting their lives on the line, & lost friends & colleagues, & to hear them matter-of factly talk of serving their country, knowing exactly what that meant.
During his waffle yesterday, Tony Blair stated that this country was far better off now than in 1945. Well, that's true in many spheres but he included crime and education. What planet is he on?
Back in 1945, murders were very few, there was no gun and knife culture, drugs were not a problem.
As for education, he cannot be serious.Just consider the high percetage of pupils now who leave school illiterate, innumerate and virtually unemployable.
This is progress? Get real Mr Blair.
Your programme on SEN which I heard part of on THursday. I am a former Administrator of an independent consultancy that has specialised in children with literacy difficulties more usually called Dyslexia. The education sector does not have any knowledge of how information from the page gets to the brain.
Yes the eyes are involved and parents generally take their child to an Opticians in the High Street for a standard eye test taken for distance at 20 feet.
But when we do close work such as reading, writing and computer work we are using our Binocular Vision system which is NEVER tested by the NHS or local Opticians. This is where many of the so called Dyslexic problems lie.
Without an improvement of the Vision system, which is traineable and develops from birth onwards a child will continue to have literacvy difficulties even though it may have SEN help.
Not many parents know this subject but it is now avilable on the internet.
Saturday Live programme has all the detalis or I can e mail anybody who wants further information.
Yours sincerely - Henry Crowther