The Nutty Professor
I will say this for Chris Harvie MSP. It takes a certain chutzpah to comment on the fashion sense of Scotland鈥檚 teenagers when you yourself have been witnessed wearing plus fours.
Mr or rather, you will not be surprised to learn, Professor Harvie castigated youngsters for wearing casual sportswear which he
Depending on your age and choice of garb, you may be with the Prof on that one. I鈥檓 not - but let鈥檚 give him some grump room.
But how about this? Mr Harvie MSP also Yes, that Lockerbie. The one where Pan Am flight 103 exploded.
The one where 259 passengers and crew plus 11 local residents died.
Apparently, the eminent professor expected to find a memorial in the town 鈥渙f a rather sombre kind鈥 to attract visitors. Think Passchendaele. Think Ypres. Think WW1.
'Over the top'
Instead, he found derelict shops and kids hanging around.
All this was rather too much for Mr Harvie鈥檚 opponents - and even his colleagues. Describing Mr Harvie as a 鈥渃olourful figure鈥, Mike Russell MSP - and Scottish Government minister - said the language chosen was over the top.
Back, reluctantly, to those plus fours. I personally espied Mr Harvie blatantly and unapologetically wearing said garment at Holyrood.
Smiling broadly, he strode towards the Garden Lobby restaurant for all the world like a refugee from the World of Wooster.
Down the decades, Chris Harvie has written perceptively and thoughtfully about Scotland, albeit latterly from his academic redoubt in Tubingen, Germany.
I offer no comment on his fashion sense, plus fours and all. I am inclined, however, to agree with Mike Russell.
Like many other small towns, Lockerbie may have its problems. But it deserves support, not carping. Especially from elected politicians.
I'm 
Comments
Brian,
From your last paragraph it appears as if you agree with Chris Harvie and your only issue is him saying it out loud. There are a number of other places in Scotland that are as much of a dump as Lockerbie and if we don't talk about these places in pain language how are we to know that they need support?
Brian, when a politician breaks ranks and stops spouting humbug and starts telling it like it is, his language is condemned as 'over the top'.
The truth is that compared with the many beautiful towns of Harvie's Germany, most towns in Scotland ARE dumps.
He is right about the clothes.
But it applies to all Scots, not just the young. Overpriced tat offered by oligopolistic chains is sold as "fashion" to people with low self esteem and limited budgets. The old calvinistic resentment of a "show off" also helps to ensure people dress badly. Take a stroll down Argyle Street then compare that to what you see on any concourse in Milan, Paris or Madrid , and you will agree with Harvie.
What is it about the SNP that they cannot go about their lawful business without picking fights with one and all?
Not content with constantly noising up Westminster or Brussels to deflect attention from the paucity of their policies and activities, they're now picking fights with other Scots - notably the good people of Lockerbie, who frankly deserve as much support as anyone can muster given the horror they encountered and many doubtless still live with.
Prof Harvie is clearly vying for Boris Johnson's crown as Britain's favourite buffoon, but isn't in the same league.
He is a pathetic old buffer who should keep his mouth shut until he has something constructive to say - but don't hold your breath.
Well said Brian.
I wonder where the legions of nat comments are on this story?
Surprising comments indeed from the good professor about Lockerbie, generally thought to be a rather pleasant and picturesque wee place. And if he were looking for a quite memorial to the fallen of the PanAm incident then he should have looked a bit closer - there is a wonderful garden of rememberance just outside town. Had he bothered to pay a bit more attention he would also have found that the good townsfolk would rather not be forever reminded of the incident by "ootsiders". They just want to get on with life like the rest of us.
I'm really glad he didn't vist Dumfries itself....now that is a dump.
As for Carlisle, we residents of Dumfries find ourselves escaping to Carlise (clean, pleasant and visitor friendly)unlike our once bonny wee toon..
Whatever.....is this really the most important thing in politics to blog about...He hasnt broken the law...( unlike many labour politicians of late) freedom of speech .
Brian .. ...plus fours...braces whats the difference.
this is a non story
Has anyone heard the old saying it is what is inside not outside that makes the man. With earthquakes, dead bodies in children's homes, a child missing and so many other horrific and more important news items I can think of more important discussions.
Having read the transcript - and his plus-4s aside - if you ignore the messenger and focus on the message...I think he has a point. It was delivered with a degree of dead-pan humour, you must admit
He was harder on Carlisle than he was on Lockerbie, too.
About time someone drew our attention to the uphill struggle tourism faces.
We have an attitude problem which should not be glossed over.
It is about time someone told it like it is , warts and all!
A bit of honesty and soul searching required!
As a regular visitor to Germany, I know what Christopher Harvie is getting at. The demise of family businesses and the rise of downmarket chain stores, the widespread litter, the booze culture and the lack of repair and maintenance to buildings and infrastructure have all contributed to the increasingly shabby appearance of many British towns. Lockerbie and Carlisle are not alone. An obvious lack of civic pride has also contributed to this sorry state of affairs. German local government works much more closely with communities to maintain high standards which people expect in any case. In the UK, many people's expectations are low in comparison and it shows.
Well said Chris Harvey,
I agree wholeheartedly with the general theme of Chris Harvey's statements. His comments on Lockerbie are of course hurtful and recognising the town's recent history a bit more thought beforehand would have been appropriate.
Scots people are fools and are deluded when they consider themselves to be in a satisfactory condition and that they live surrounded by beauty just because of a few hills worthy enough of picture postcards.
Just two weeks ago I returned from an extended trip to one of the Third World's poorer countries. Now that place and it's people really are beautiful .. just poor. On the flight from Amsterdam to Glasgow after weeks of peace I was immersed again in obscene foul language from fellow Scots who thought they were just engaging in normal conversation. On the road into the village where I live I was immersed again into piles of chip wrappers and then later a hazardous walk to the pub around all the dog dirt. All of this 'Scots Crap' and horrid ugliness is fully familiar to us all and nothing exceptional -- we just don't see or hear it any more.
I am a Scot Nat. We need more people such as Chris Harvey telling the truth. Perhaps then we (all of us)can better understand our problems and at long last get moving along on the road towards improvement.
Scotland is not yet The Best Wee Country -- far from it. That kind of stuff spouted by our previous First Minister is a real divergence from the truth and does us no credit whatsoever.
Sadly I have to agree with the MSP's comments. The town as a shopping centre seems to have disappeared and the boarded up remains of past glories are all too obvious. On a related note Lockerbie may have potentially the best rail service in the whole of Dumfries and Galloway but it still doesn't seem to have any conveniences open after the station staff have gone home at night. Not a good scene for visitors.
The rise of the downmarket chain store, the demise of family businesses, the booze and littering culture and the lack of repair and maintenance of the infrastructure in so many British towns are notable features which are largely absent in Germany (and many continental countries) where personal and civic standards are high. Our towns often look shabby and unkempt in comparison. Lockerbie and Carlisle are not alone in this respect. We could do so much better, but it will need a sea-change in attitude by both the public and local government to achieve the higher expectations we deserve to have.
If our aim is negativity we can all find details to carp about in almost any town or city like having two football grounds within spitting distance of one another.
never been to lockerbie but read in local paper many times about people complaing that ayr is a dump which i agree with especially the bottom half of town with all the closed shops so in my mind its only being truthful so maybe the councillors in ayr will get of their backsides and do something about it
Reporting"Scotland" spent more time this evening with this non-story than they did with Charlie Gordon,Wendy Alexander,Trish Godman etc,etc,etc put togather.
Ive been to Lockerbie and it aint the prettiest place in the World.
Mr Harvie is right on all counts. Lockerbie is not dissimilar to most towns in D&G. I am from the Stewartry and I honestly dont know what attracts people to the area. Yes the scenery is very beautiful but the public transport is awful and there are very few sights of interest: The main towns: Kirkcudbright and Castle Douglas would keep most people occupied for about 2 hours max. The people (young and old) dress in a manner that most Europeans would be appalled by and because of the brain drain from the area the chance of things improving is vitrtually zero. The region needs harsh words: Labour never critisised the area but then they never did anything for it: When Glasgow underwent a transformation and state jobs were transferred to the Highlands, the 2 southern regions recieved a wide berth - no wonder its SNP v Conservatives down here.
cant comment on lockerbie but tell you what ayr is a dump especially the bottom half with all the closed shops im only speaking the truth which isnt a bad thing
Im in tourism and let me tell one & all if we do not address the state of some of Scotlands towns in general we are heading for big trouble.Shell suits ,louts on corners derelict shops in Tesco towns
etc etc,I'm afraid Prof Harvie is right "dump" is an appropriate word for a lot of places in Scotland and its only by facing up to these things that we can move forward.Tourism is big business in Scotland listen to what the man is saying and learn from it!!
So he's had a Victor Meldrew moment, so what. More importantly how good an MSP is he?
The lesson for him and others is not so much defining the negative as in not offering a solution.
Anyone can define problems Chris, the trick is to define them then say, this is how it could be, this is how we can improve matters.
Better still, this is how I am going to help.
A useful learning curve, no more.
I think the SNP member was quite right to come out and say the things he did - no use trying to hide these places - get it out itio the open and advertise the fact that these places need more investments put their way. Keep up the good work Chris !!
I wonder what the SNP reaction would have been had a Labour backbencher had made these same comments. Somehow I suspect there wouldn't be 'more important things to blog about' then!
Happy to comment to those who think the SNP supporters will not reply. Chris Harvie is saying it the way it is. How refreshing to have a politician and an SNP government who are looking honestly at Scotland's problems unlike the NUmpty Labour party/Tories/Fib Dems who do London's bidding and are happy to take the crumbs from the master's table. The SNP are looking at the problems in Scotland and are coming up with solutions in Scotland's best interest Get used to it.
Harvie is from Motherwell, a place reminiscent of Aix en Provence no?
Duncan Fraser is right.
Germany took a long time to recover cultutrally after the war, gain its respect and self esteem back.
Having beautiful towns, manicured with a civic pride and with a general feeling of hope does help.
And Germany has done that, and litter is almost non existent, even in the poor parts of urban centres.
Nothing personal, I have been to both towns, and Tubingen where Harvie taught is a typical beautiful student town where people from everywhere are welcome. And Lockerbie, and other run down towns, need extensive infrastructure
improvements and a large does of personal respect pills to even be considered in the same breath.
When Scots start to care about their health and how they are on the inside as well as the outside then the ongoing giro mentality passed from father to son might be broken.
It will most likely take at least a generation as we start from this low base.
Rather than criticise the comments, the pollies of all parties if they had guts should agree it is a mess and how they can do something REAL to fix it instead of making inept politically motivated comments which do not reflect the truth.
I don't know what all the fuss is about Chris Harvie is only speaking the truth but instead of Lockerbie he could be talking about almost any large Scottish town. He also mentions one of the main causes of the present situation ie the de-industrialisation of our country which means a lack of 'proper' jobs. As for dress sense he is spot on you don't see replica football tops and cheap tracksuits with baseball caps on continental kids and adults. You can spot a Brit a mile away!
A politician being frank and honest does not bother me in the slightest,if only there were more, because the truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.
Mr C. Harvie, I salute thee !
Brian
If the comments are true and quoted in their intended context, then Chris harvie's comments are insensitive and will obviously cause offensive to some people, there may be some truth in his comments, but they are not constructive.
Personally I have found most small or large towns have their problems and most of the clothes worn by our kids today are of a theme, mass produced, mass media and peer driven,leaving no room for individualism.
Bring back the Kaftan and bell bottom jeans.
've never been to Lockerbie, so I cannot make a comment on the state of this town but his comments were during a committee on travel so at least these were aired in the right context.
But the hilarious comments about the fashion of "Scottish Youth" (around 2 million people in one category) is laughable. Anyone that compares what people where in Scotland to what Europeans wear and finds there to be a major difference is obviously comparing 2 completely different areas.
What a group of boys wear on a street corner in Possil to what 24 year-olds wear in an up-market street in Milan is bound to be different. But comparing these same boys to the boys in a comparable area of Milan shows that the style of clothing is exactly the same, just swap Celtic & Rangers trackies for Milan and Inter.
I've been to club nights all over Europe and never thought there was any difference between what is worn.
Is this just another case of an older generation of Scots attempting to bring down the whole country with their pessimism or am I merely over-exaggerating?
As with post no 8, there are more important issues to be considering in the enws. But Alex Salmond appears rather quiet at the moment. Surely he's not allowed the professor to have his 15 minutes of glory to keep other news out of the spotlight?
brian, whats the problem here?,you know, as well as i do, this can apply to many towns in scotland,plenty supermarkets,pubs,and little else all the shops are boarded up or charity have taken over,its just a
surprise to hear honesty instead of the usual pc talk we are conditioned
to expect,get used to it i expect a
lot more in future,as for his plus
fours thats his style,i did not hear him asking you to wear them!!
live and let live,now move on.
Many once beautiful towns in scotland are a dump, its unfair to single out lockerbie.
However the dump towns are dumps in all sense of the word, places where the forgotten ill educated, poorly paid, no hopers in society are left to their own devices, leading to the Dumps these towns have become, these facts are hurtful but accurate.
What we need is to reinvigorate these places, Secure proper jobs so that the populace can restore its pride and hope. Increase transport infrastucure so those who wish to work in the cities can commute easily without moving away. In essence give the towns back some pride.
I agree with the other post about St-Andrews.
An Old Bejant
Given that Christopher Harvie's comments were made during a debate on tourism - what's wrong with him pointing out the plain truth that many Scottish towns are dumps.
It's just a shame he didn't also make the point that many of these towns have failed to be regenerated under decades of local Labour Party rule - it is perhaps that additional truth (unstated by Prof Harvie) that so much annoys the likes of Jackie Baillie.
Describing Lockerbie as "Tesco town" may seem to some as over the top - but to many accross Scotland, merely a statement of the obvious.
As the supermarket giant Tesco is a significant cash donor to the Labour Party - little wonder too that description might upset Labour's fundraisers.
When I first heard this I was shocked and a little angry, then i read the political editor in the Express who said that it was mostly true and he also castigated the Tory MP who mentioned the Pan Am outrage and rightly asked what has that got to do with Mr Harvie's comments. We do have a problem in many areas with boarded up shops and drunken youths, is it so wrong to want to make our country a better palce, a place where tourists and locals alike are happy to spend time in?
Mr Harvies comments display an arrogant ignorance of the towns he comments on. Lockerbie has changed little since tesco opened just a few months ago and if anything it's opening has improved what was an eyesore area in the town.
His comments implying that there should be some sort of sombre Pan am theme park were the one's that really were offensive and showed complete contempt for Lockerbie.
However, what annoys me most is the fact that the SNP recently voted against extra funding to help regenerate town centres because they have spent the cash on a few headline grabbing announcements. Mr Harvie may have highlighted some issues - but he also highlighted how the SNP aren't prepared to tackle them.
Having read a number of books by the man over the past 15 years or so, one of Harvie's characteristic themes is astute social
observation. Indeed, this is a main factor which invites the reader to frequently dip back into his work . Therefore in this context,
Professor Harvie is operating at his standard high level.
As many folk above have noted, the welcome difference of an elected politican speaking truthfully in a forthright manner using
language that is easily understood by all, is not simply to be welcomed, but positively appluaded!
Regarding his comments, his perspective of living in a vibrant town in SW Germany clearly contrasts drastically with an equivalent
town in SW Scotland; indeed, it is not remotely surprising that his comments are interpretated so widely.
Tourism has been worshipped as an acheivable Holy Grail that Scotland should pursue for far too long. We have our landscape,
inherent hosptiality & the fruits of the country to offer, but generally maintain far too much pride to sell ourselves effectively. Most of
our citizens do not want to project themselves of having an image that by being slaves to a service industry, they too are in voluntary
servitude.
Scotland needs to take a long hard look at where we go & I believe that over-dependence on a fickle tourist market is the wrong
cornerstone to regenerate our rural economy.