Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú

Leyla Hussein, one of our guests, said that she agreed with Parv. She is Somali, and she said that there was a lot of pressure to keep them Somali.

Hiba Jamal, who is Lebanese and studying in Glasgow, said the media plays a big role. She pointed to President Bush's comment recently about Islamic Fascism and how that might lead to upset amongst Muslims.

Patrick called from the US. He said that also he is Indian but grew up in the US. There, he said that you grow up thinking that you are American first and Indian second. Everyone is made to feel proud to be American, he added. And he said that society needs to do more to make people feel proud of the country that they live in

Parv said that everyone buys into the idea of American culture. In Britain, we were brough in as a work force, he said. And when they moved into a neighbourhood, the whites moved out. White Flight, he said.

Hamid Senni in Paris is a third generation Morroccan. In France, when we look at England, Muslims can dress as they want, he said. In France, if a girl walks around and wears a head scarf, she is made to feel a little out of place.

But Hamid said that he feels that he feels French first.

But Lakhdar Belaid said that the issue of secularism is under debate in France. Last year, there was a law that banned the head scarf in schools, and a number of girls were evicted from schools. Many said that the law represented a new form of racism in France.

Ten years ago, there was action against head scarfs, but this led to a protest movement, and from that there was a terrorist movement that developed.

We just got this text message from Mwende in Eastbourne in the UK:

Am kenyan by birth but british first b'se this is my home and my life.

Yara has just called. She's a Lebanese, but she also is French. "I can live with those two things." She would say that she is Lebanese but got French nationality.

Ted joined us from Texas in the US. Rabiya asked him if the US was a model of multiculturalism?

He said no. Traditionally, the US is seen as a melting pot. Multiculturalism is one of holding onto your culture to the exclusion of your own culture, but he liked the more the traditional view of the melting pot where a person accepts the American culture, adding in their own culture.

Bashir came from Somalia to the US in 1999. He says that he feels very much a part of his community. When he first arrived in the US, there were only 2,000 Somalis but now there are 50,000.

Leyla asked Bashir how it was there in the US. Bashir said that the US is a nation of immigrants. The US has a lot of diversity, he said.

Leyla said that in the UK Somalis had strong links back to Somalia. Bashir said some people look at Somali women who wear the hijab oddly.

George called from Boston. He said the city is very 'sectionalised'. There is an Italian part of Boston, an Irish part of Boston and a Chinse part of Boston, all part of the city. He said that the Muslim population seemed to want to stay apart. "That is where you start to see the problems," he said.

Parv asked Ted what it meant to be an American. George said it was apple pie, the flag, being American. He was born in Sweden. In American, you're not defined by your religion.

Ted said: "Certainly religion is important, but democracy is important. And being accepting of other cultures is important." But he said that it is a problem when people want to do violence and 'declare jihad on us'.

Ray Kune grew up in Yorkshire, but he is Chinese and grew up in Mauritius. He agreed with the US or the French model where respect for the country you live in comes first.

Some of your e-mails

We received a lot of e-mails on this topic. Here is just a sample of a few.

Steve in Dammeron Valley, Utah, USA

When I lived in Western Sydney in Australia, many of the ethnic groups who came as waves of refugees were clumped together in groups. While they were able to maintain areas of ethnic and national flair throughout the suburbs, this enabled them to live in the country while not assimilating into Australian mainstream life. Many of the first generation migrants could barely speak English -- if any at all. They need to bring their unique cultures with them, but allowing them to evade the common culture of the country is a mistake that hurts all.

Speaking of Sydney Steve, we got this e-mail from Gavin Oughton in Sydney Australia:

State enforced multiculturalism is dangerous and devisive. I wonder why it was ever invented! Why was it ever implimented ? It doesn't work!

There are many factors that contribute to the disaffection of young Muslim males and I am hard put to see what the relationship between multiculturalism and Muslim extremism is. This is far too simplistic as an analysis. Extremism is never a just response to feeling alienated—second generation immigrants do struggle with identity issues regardless of how open and tolerant the society is in which they live. It is a common problem, but what other second generation immigrants have turned to outright treason? Muslim extremists are biting the hand that feeds them, wielding the tools of modernity in order to destroy it. This action is parasitic. Britain is a democracy and the energy spent in destroying it could be better put to finding more creative means of expression.
Multiculturalism, if anything, in Britain, is guilty of being too tolerant and relativistic. Whilst diversity is important and enriches our lives and cultures, there have to be a set of commonly agreed to values and a sense of what it means to be British. Whilst it is important to understand what fuels extremism and address some of the frustrations minorities in this country experience, I do get fed up with the notion that somehow these frustrations warrant violence.

This topic relates very much to one of your subjects last week where you asked which was more important, religion or nationality. Members of subcultures who put their nationalities, new and old, before their religion always seem to integrate better than those who band together as minorities and are then driven towards the extreme.There are many different religions in the West; what binds nations together is their common nationality. When you have an interconnected religion like Islam today, a religion that takes the place of nationality, you have different minorities in different countries identifying more with each other than with the people they live next door to.

Here is a late e-mail that came in from Maisam Salehi in Pennsylvania, US:

I was born in Afghanistan but was raised in NY. I believe but much of extremist ideology is formed by individuals that have been isolated and segregated from mainstream society. Teachings of parents and Muslim clerics also have profound impact on young individuals, especially in private schools. The best opportunity for integration and multiculturalism would be through educational institutions. I also agree with the gentleman from Texas in regards to the US being a cultural melting pot.

Another e-mail that just came in from Pradnya in Canada:

My experiences growing up are most similar to Patrick. I'm ethnically East Indian, born in Canada but raised in the US. I am currently living in Toronto and have many mixed feelings about the multiculturalism. Growing up in Michigan, my parents made a point to involve me in sports, attend American theater and rock concerts, while learning my parents native tongue and reading Indian literature. I feel like my friend circle is a great representation of all cultures (we are Indian, Jewish, German, Phillipino and white) and I'm very proud that I can say that. When I sit at a meeting at GM, you could go around the table and find yourself across Polish, Chinese, Indian, Greek, Italian and African names, but we all consider ourselves American first. Some of us may not even know our parents native language because it was ingrained in us that if we were not completely American, we would never get good jobs and live in the better parts of town. We were all immersed in affordable American pastimes such as county fairs, baseball, school functions and community initiatives. I noticed in Toronto, and in other big cities, when enough of your own race/culture exists, you tend not to mix with the mainstream culture. In Toronto, cultures are encouraged to stay within themselves and not forced to intermix. The wealthier Italians all live in Woodbridge, the Indians in Brampton, and the Chinese in Markham. The only true diversity occurs in the actual city where the poorest live amongst each other because at that point, it's not about race, it's about socioeconomics. Therefore, I didn't think it was surprising a terror cell was busted and several Canadian born Muslims were arrested. What was suprising was when the Muslim community attended the Police conference, and their main concern was their reputation, and not that their community didn't recognize their at-risk youth. Truthfully, it gets tiring to hear people espouse their ethnic culture all the time. Enough already! We're all humans!