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Debbie's surname
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by triffid (U2389672) on Tuesday, 20th March 2007
I see from next week's Radio Times that Debbie is listed in the cast as Debbie Travers-Macy. This conflicts with the 2007 edition of Who's Who in TA which gives her name as Debbie Aldridge (formerly Gerrard, nee Travers-Macy). Perhaps Keri could tell us which name she actually goes under? I'm fairly certain that in recent times she has tended to use the surname Aldridge.
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Message 2
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Wednesday, 21st March 2007
Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:07 GMT, in reply to triffid in message 1
One infallible way would be for Joe to meet her in the street. -
Message 3
Posted by Lizaveta Nikolaevna (U2265953) on Wednesday, 21st March 2007
As far as I know, it goes like this: Debbie, being Roger's daughter, was called Travers-Macy in her childhood and teens. But because her parents divorced when she was very young, the only "real" father that she has ever known is Brian.
Roger Travers-Macy came back into Debbie's life on some significant birthday (21st?). He bought her a car, I think. But when he reappeared, instead of "bonding" with his daughter properly, he chose to renew sexual relations with his ex-wife. Debbie resented this, and as an act of defiance declared that Brian was her dad and that she preferred to be called Debbie Aldridge.
I have no idea whether she went to the trouble of changing her name officially. -
Message 4
Posted by ExTAlistener (U3058291) on Wednesday, 21st March 2007
Nut then after she became Gerard, she similaneously parted with her husband and had an almight feud with Brian, so no-one was sure what she was calling herself. Some time before she was reconciled with Brian (after the Siobhán-induced car accident, ironically). So did she go back to Travers-Macy, and following that back to Aldridge?
Maybe she calls herself different things at different times - this is not unknown.... -
Message 5
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Wednesday, 21st March 2007
When Jennifer married Brian, he wanted to adopt Adam and Debbie, but Roger refused permission, and for most of her life, Debbie was known as Macy (Adam still is Adam Macy).
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Message 6
Posted by bob larkin (U2297537) on Wednesday, 21st March 2007
Absolutely Peet. But Joe is a creature of habit. Can he keep up with all the changes?
bob -
Message 7
Posted by Elnora Cornstalk (U5646495) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
In reply to bob larkin
Could we triangulate this with a similar case:
What does he call Shula [Archer] Hebden Lloyd?
Elnora -
Message 8
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I seem to remember he stopped calling her "Shula Archer" when she 'spoke up' for them against the poisonous Pemberton person, so I expect he's still calling her "Shula Hebden."
I seem to remember him telling her she'd be an aceptable daughter-in-law, when she was younger (before Mark). -
Message 9
Posted by mike (U2254029) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I remember Joe calling her "the widow Hebden" which I thought was rather good. He also made quite a fuss once, pretending not to know her (new) double-barrelled surname which I took to be a general (and unfavourable) comment on such things.
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Message 10
Posted by triffid (U2389672) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I suspect that moving in the circles she does (riding stables and all that) it is to Shula's advantage to go under a double-barrelled surname. Certainly when I was in the public service we had a young ambitious executive who on the advice of seniors hyphenated his wife's surname with his own, thus becoming one of the double-barrelled brigade. Perhaps Debbie too finds a double-barrelled surname an advantage.
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Message 11
Posted by bob larkin (U2297537) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I'm sure that double barrelled names have been discussed before at TB.
IIRC the proper way is that if toff A marries toffess B, but B brings a lot more dosh with her than A then her name lives on: they become Mr. and Mrs. A-B (or is it B-A?). If A has all the dosh then they are Mrs. and Mrs. A.
I have probably got it wrong - but then probbaly so has Shula calling herself Hebden-Lloyd. OTH she can call herself whatever she likes (we too can call her whatever we like!).
bob -
Message 12
Posted by Ina McAllan (U1723501) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I hadn't noticed this - but I did notice the 'Soap & Flannel' reference to Debbie 'taking after her father' - and assumed that the author was just demonstrating his woeful knowledge of TA history - but maybe Roger is going to make an apearance...
Should have put this in the spoiler zone I suppose. -
Message 13
Posted by Lizaveta Nikolaevna (U2265953) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
Ahem. Nothing wrong with double-barrelled names, even if I say so myself.
I've been double-barrelled since I got married. Nothing about dosh: I just didn't want to abandon my own name which had served me perfectly well for over 30 years, but I also wanted to establish a link with my husband and his family. He remains single-barrelled, by the way.
Sometimes I think I would have been better off just sticking to my own name, as the double-barrel gives passive-aggressive people (like my sister-in-law!) an excuse not to use my chosen name. Apparently it is too long to put on an envelope! [Rolls eyes] Everybody else seems to manage without running out of ink or developing a repetitive strain injury.
What I really can't stand is being called Mrs. John Smith. Eh? Where did my first name suddenly disappear to, let alone my surname? Mrs. John Smith indeed --- what am I, some sort of little footnote in my husband's family tree? Revolting.
Anyway, favourite rant over. Back to Shula: I think when you consider the circumstances of the end of her first marriage, it makes perfect sense for her to call herself Hebden-Llyod.
And if I were Adam, I would definitely call myself Adam Archer. -
Message 14
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
Debbie was 5½ when her mother married Brian, and she stopped being Double-Barrelled then, and was known as Deborah Macy. Since then she has been Debbie Aldridge, Debbie Gerrard and Debbie Aldridge again, She hasn't been Debbie Travers-Macy since 1976, so why have they renamed her after 30 years?
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Message 15
Posted by Lizaveta Nikolaevna (U2265953) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
I don't buy RT myself, but from what I hear on this board, I get the impression that it often gets TA-related things wrong.
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Message 16
Posted by ExTAlistener (U3058291) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
- or Adam Archer Craig...? -
Message 17
Posted by chris murray (U3149163) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
Nobody's ever been able to explain to my satisfaction (and I keep on asking) why Debbie and Adam have the same surname (the Macy bit) when they don't have the same dad.
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Message 18
Posted by mike (U2254029) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
Because Debbie's dad (Roger T-M) adopted Adam.
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Message 19
Posted by Lady Macbeϯh - not without mustard (U550479) on Thursday, 22nd March 2007
Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:27 GMT, in reply to Lizaveta Nikolaevna in message 13
What I really can't stand is being called Mrs. John Smith. Eh? Where did my first name suddenly disappear to, let alone my surname? Mrs. John Smith indeed --- what am I, some sort of little footnote in my husband's family tree?Ìý
You are 'Mrs John Smith' as 'Mrs' denotes 'wife of'. Were you to become widowed you would be allowed to revert to your own first name, should you so wish.
I refused to change my name when I married and was considered extremely odd 30-some years ago. Most people still consider it odd. My children have their father's surname, so people assume I'm divorced rather than widowed.
When called 'Mrs' I always reply that I am not and never have been married to any of my close male relations.
However, in the unlikely event of my wishing to remarry (like anyone would want to marry a psychopathic crone) I would have to marry under my husband's surname, which I have never used, or pay a solicitor to regain my name legally. My sister had to do this when she remarried and did not want to use her ex-husband's name in the ceremony. There is, however, no law which states that a woman must take her husband's surname on marrige. [You sign you marriage licence with your maiden name, after all.] -
Message 20
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Friday, 23rd March 2007
For a while, after her estrangement from Brian, Debbie reverted to using Travers-Macy but found it more convenient to return to Aldridge when over time she had forgiven him.
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Message 21
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Friday, 23rd March 2007
Thanks for that piece of information.
Indeed, although I always bow to RosieT's extensive knowledge of Archers' matters little and great, I though Debbie always used the T-M version whereas Adam was just Macy. I though it was a signal that she was the T-M daughter.
But probably I just onvented that. -
Message 22
Posted by stolenkisses (U6230663) on Friday, 23rd March 2007
This is one of those things that are different in Scotland. A married woman keeps her surname and is known as Mrs Debbie Archer or Gerrard.
Of course Ambridge is in England, so this is not really much help.
SK -
Message 23
Posted by Lizaveta Nikolaevna (U2265953) on Friday, 23rd March 2007
stolenkisses, I think part of the problem in our (my and my husband's case) is that he is neither Scottish nor English but (white) South African, i.e. from a politically conservative background.
He questions a lot of what his family take for granted (I wouldn't have married him otherwise), but his stance does not really help change anything when I'm at loggerheads with his family about women's rights, gay rights, etc.
His sister (only 36!) belongs to a sort of pre-1960 era where women take their husbands' surnames without even thinking about it, stop working as soon as they reproduce, and spend all their time planning birthday parties for their kids, etc. Rather a nightmare IMO. Digging her heels in about my name is her way of telling me that she does not approve of me.
Hmm. How does that relate to TA? Let me think about it. -
Message 24
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Monday, 26th March 2007
For a while, after her estrangement from Brian, Debbie reverted to using Travers-Macy but found it more convenient to return to Aldridge when over time she had forgiven him.
Ìý Were we told that on air? Or is it a Jock Gallagher invention? I cannot recall it, but that means little!
What reason did she give for reverting to the surname she's not used since she was 6 years old, and did anyone else in the village comment on it? -
Message 25
Posted by ExTAlistener (U3058291) on Monday, 26th March 2007
Ah, but has she? She has still not been reconciled with Elizabeth after all. It was after the supposed reconciliation that Debbie's behaviour became so caluclating.
In any case, does Debbie change her name back to soemthing else if she discovers the true circumstances of the car crash? -
Message 26
Posted by mike (U2254029) on Monday, 26th March 2007
Keri's reply (as you would expect) is consistent with the surnames given to Debbie in WWITA:
2001 Gerrard
2002 Gerrard
2003 Gerrard
2004 Travers-Macy
2005 Travers-Macy
2006 Aldridge -
Message 27
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Monday, 26th March 2007
sorry, what is "WWITA"? white whitches in the archers?
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Message 28
Posted by 250 characters (U7584438) on Monday, 26th March 2007
Wagon Wheels In Tinier 'Andfuls
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Message 29
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Monday, 26th March 2007
's o.k. I know now it's "Who's Who in The Archers." (Pile of them by computer).
But was this strange decision, to resurrect an unused name, made on air, please? -
Message 30
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Tuesday, 27th March 2007
It was, although I haven't got chapter and verse to hand.
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Message 31
Posted by Elnora Cornstalk (U5646495) on Tuesday, 27th March 2007
In reply to mike .... in message 26
I'm amazed Debbie could be bothered. I changed my name only once, and was horrified at the hours I had to put in writing here, there and everywhere to notify the powers that be. And I wasn't involved in different businesses in different European countries, nor did I have a 'bulging contact book', as they put it in the ads. I expect Debbie does though.
Exhausted at the thought.
Still looking forward to hearing Jo address Shula, Mike. (I loved your 'Widow Hebden' memory. Did he ever do 'Divorcee Perks'?)
Elnora -
Message 32
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Sunday, 15th April 2007
Sorry to bother you, Keri, but have you and/or Camilla checked out the chapter and verse, yet?
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Message 33
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Monday, 16th April 2007
I hadn't planned to, I must say. I'm writing the next Who's Who in The Archers at the moment so I'm a bit "up to here" with things.
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