This discussion has been closed.
Posted by Pooch - followed by an apostrophe (U2262662) on Tuesday, 6th November 2007
In a radio drama, there's an obvious need for distinctive voices, so I was just wondering why there aren't any characters with Welsh accents. Ambridge is, we are led to believe, not a million miles from the Welsh borders.
I've been listening reasonably regularly for nearly ten years and I can't recall any at all.
Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:41 GMT, in reply to Pooch' in message 1
They tried it with Pat, then slowly her accent faded out.
There was also Pat's Uncle Hayden for a while. He was very Welsh, and kept a local garage.
Is my memory playing tricks on me, or was Sean Myerson of the Cat & Fiddle (who first outed Sid as a homophobe) also Welsh?
Alma.
, in reply to message 2.
Posted by Pooch - followed by an apostrophe (U2262662) on Tuesday, 6th November 2007
Pat was Welsh?
P.S. I posted this to N&Q by mistake. I intended it for DTA - perhaps it belongs here anyway.
Pat was very Welsh when she first arrived in Ambridge have come from a Welsh sheep farm (if I remember correctly).
Over the years, every so often, someone comments on her total lack of Welshness now.
Luv Psi-V
Pat was WelshÂ
Er, no ... Pat *is* Welsh, she has just lost her accent over the years as many people do.
Alma, no, your memory isn't playing tricks. Sean was from Wales.
, in reply to message 7.
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Tuesday, 6th November 2007
And, of course, Gwyn Evans, Haydn Evans son, and Pat's cousin, was Welsh. He "became a townie and worked in a shoe shop." In a rocky marriage in Vancouver!
, in reply to message 6.
Posted by Pooch - followed by an apostrophe (U2262662) on Tuesday, 6th November 2007
Er, no ... Pat *is* Welsh, she has just lost her accent over the years as many people do.Â
Not much evidence of it. Most people retain a hint of an accent.
Pat's lost more than just her accent, but all rememberance that she spent the first part (some might say the best part - without Tony) of her life in Welsh Wales.
She is out and out English - I wonder, which team did she support at the recent rugby thingy?
Luv Psi-V
Everybody I know hardly spends any time at all harking back to where they were born/ brought up so Pat would seem to be consistent with that.
, in reply to message 11.
Posted by smarttedebear (U3614285) on Wednesday, 7th November 2007
I think that Pat has not only lost her Welsh accent but has acquired a very English accent, almost to the point of exaggeration. One has only to listen to her pronunciation of her daughter's name, which always comes out as 'Helin'.
, in reply to message 12.
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Wednesday, 7th November 2007
the welsh 'Alun' is pronounced 'Alin.'
, in reply to message 13.
Posted by ExTAlistener (U3058291) on Wednesday, 7th November 2007
Ah, but that's because it's pronounced as it's spelt (Welsh u = i in South and Mid Wales) whereas e is pronounced as an e, and would be pronounced as such in Welsh speech. (unlike in English speech where the last syllable just becomes a grunt!) However, the Welsh forms of Helen can be either Elen or Elin.....
, in reply to message 14.
Posted by jennet_device (U8197637) on Wednesday, 7th November 2007
Pat's natural accent was Southern, so she just reverted. You can hear her so-called Welsh accent on the timeline. It's not very convincing.
, in reply to message 6.
Posted by Auntie Molly (was mollygee) (U4008898) on Thursday, 8th November 2007
Er, no ... Pat *is* Welsh, she has just lost her accent over the years as many people do.Â
There is more to sounding Welsh than accent - there is a quality of the voice. Even if she had lost her accent, there would still be the occasional vowel sound or inflection to remind us of her origins.
Anthony Hopkins still sounds Welsh and he's been living in America for yonks. Or perhaps I am just more sensitive to Welshness, being Welsh!
I agree that Hopkins sounds Welsh, but the point is that some people keep their accents (or intonation or whatever) and some people lose them. I have met Keri a couple of times (for example) and would never have guessed that he was Welsh if it hadn't been pointed out to me.
, in reply to message 17.
Posted by Auntie Molly (was mollygee) (U4008898) on Thursday, 8th November 2007
I have met Keri a couple of times (for example) and would never have guessed that he was Welsh if it hadn't been pointed out to me.
Interesting! I would like to hear Keri - I consider myself to have a pretty keen ear for accents and pride myself on being able to detect Welshness where no one else can!
, in reply to message 18.
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Thursday, 8th November 2007
We moved from Wales when I was very young and I grew up in Wiltshire. Not that there's much of that accent in the way I speak.
I do get more Welsh when back in Wales, though.
, in reply to message 19.
Posted by jennet_device (U8197637) on Thursday, 8th November 2007
Yes, going back to Wales has that effect, doesn't it? I am a more or less RP speaker, but once in the country i always think my Welsh relatives will assume I am sending them up, as my accent gets broader and broader. No, no, they say, you have a lovely English accent, fach.
the policeman who interviewed kathys etc recently sounded welsh to me.
i think many of us revert back to what we've lost when we return. visiting my mother i would soon start to drop aitches and g's for example that i had acquired inlater life!
, in reply to message 21.
Posted by Julius Geezer (U10065478) on Friday, 9th November 2007
Pat's accent was a very poor imitation of a Carmarthenshire lass - it was laughable. Hadyn at least sounded Welsh. Like Aunty Gwyneth. She was even supposed to speak the lingo.
The programme's better off without the Welsh if that's the way they are portrayed
, in reply to message 22.
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Friday, 9th November 2007
Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:23 GMT, in reply to Julius Geezer in message 22
Hadyn & Gwyneth can be heard speaking the odd word of welsh on archive tapes - authentic given welsh speaking actors. I believe John Ogwen who played Gwyn left because he was fed up of the "look you" lines and mickey taking of the welsh in scripts (remember something on a tape about Hadyn wrapping leeks as presents)
, in reply to message 23.
Posted by smarttedebear (U3614285) on Saturday, 10th November 2007
Accents in TA always seem to cause controversy, too much, too little, changing, inappropriate etc. It is said that Pat's accent changed over the years as she lost her Welsh accent, if only Ruth would lose her accent after all the years she has spent in Ambridge. Tom has reverted to the actor's natural accent, Nottingham. Why? Keri has written on this board that Tom's accent was RP when he first spoke in Ambridge. I can not understand why standards are allowed to drop in this way and now Tom has a completely inappropriate accent for a lad from the West and not East Midlands. I have a high regard for the actors who at least have a stab at what is considered to be an appropriate accent for Ambridge.
, in reply to message 24.
Posted by Flora Poste (U10018463) on Saturday, 10th November 2007
Ah--but it's Borsetshire, a special never-neverland of rural, bucolic fantasy---and this the Borsetshire accent is very varied---Ned Larkin, Jethro Larkin, Clarrie, Walter Gabriel, Tom Forrest, Bert, the Grundies Aunty Cardboard and all---exhibit/exhibited a delightful spectrum of linguistic dialect....there are no rules, and it all depends on which hedge you were near at birth.....
Was Len Thomas ( ashepherd IIRC) Welsh?
He sounds as if he should be.
bob
, in reply to message 26.
Posted by Urban 'Reg' Chronotis (U2338993) on Sunday, 11th November 2007
Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:01 GMT, in reply to bob larkin in message 26
Yes, Bob, Len Thomas (Dan Archer's shepherd) was Welsh. But the actor wasn't - at least he doesn't seem to be now that he's playing Jack Woolley!
Reg
, in reply to message 25.
Posted by Urban 'Reg' Chronotis (U2338993) on Sunday, 11th November 2007
Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:06 GMT, in reply to Flora Poste in message 25
Ned Larkin, Jethro Larkin, Clarrie, Walter Gabriel, Tom Forrest, Bert, the Grundies Aunty Cardboard and all---exhibit/exhibited a delightful spectrum of linguistic dialectÂ
When Ned was around I thought his was supposed to be the authentic South Borsetshire accent. It's only recently that I've discovered that he was suppoesd to be an incomer from Dorset!
Well it's only one letter different.
Reg
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