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Matt Crawford Orphan
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Message 1.Â
Posted by DiamondLil (U11107751) on Tuesday, 17th June 2008
If Matt has no birth Certificate how would he get a passport, or has he never been abroad??
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Message 2
Posted by Almond_Aire (U2259917) on Tuesday, 17th June 2008
If you are adopted you produce your adoption crtificate instead of your birth certificate.
Alma. -
Message 3
Posted by DiamondLil (U11107751) on Wednesday, 18th June 2008
Oh really, I didn't know that Ta
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Message 4
Posted by PrincessMakeBelieve (U12027202) on Friday, 20th June 2008
My OH was adopted as a baby over 50 years ago, but he doesn't have any adoption papers of any kind.
He has what I refer to as a shortened birth certificate. It just gives his name (the one his adopted parents gave him), date of birth, sex, registration district (in which he was adopted) and date of registration (which is the date he was registered under his new [adoptive] name, not the date his original birth was registered). He's never had any problems using this in any legal capacity.
What he does sometimes have a problem with are "Place of Birth" questions. Some institutions don't seem to like/be willing to accept "unknown" without querying it.
HTH
PMB -
Message 5
Posted by smarttedebear (U3614285) on Friday, 20th June 2008
Couldn't your OH just give the place he lived in when he was adopted? I think that institutions, financial and otherwise, have a space on their form and would put down whatever they are told. As long as he always says the same thing i don't see that it would matter. I am always being asked for mother's maiden name, and the fact is I don't know. I make sure I am consistent in what I tell them and nobody seems to mind, or even care.
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Message 6
Posted by PrincessMakeBelieve (U12027202) on Friday, 20th June 2008
Well, he could, but he doesn't. He's a bit awkward that way! -
Message 7
Posted by Almond_Aire (U2259917) on Friday, 20th June 2008
< I am always being asked for mother's maiden name >
I am constantly amazed that people are still asked this without having a different choice for a "secret word". After all, your mother's surname might well be the same as yours if she never married or if she kept her own surname. Then the word is hardly a "secret" is it?
It's different of course for government-type forms where they are trying to ensure you are who you say you are, but the wording on these is usually different anyway, allowing for "not applicable".
Alma. -
Message 8
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Friday, 20th June 2008
>Some institutions don't seem to like/be willing to accept "unknown" without querying it.
Perhaps he should intimate that it's Unknown, Idaho. -
Message 9
Posted by fieldplace (U2485713) on Friday, 20th June 2008
Almond the reason organisations ask for your mother's maiden name & your place of birth is that since 1912 when Registered Births, in England & Wales, are Indexed they follow the following format:
Surname;
Mother's Maiden Name;
1st Two Forename & subsequent initials;
Registration District;
Volume;
Page.
Thus with the first three you can obtain a birth certificate or at least proof that the person is a British Subject. -
Message 10
Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Friday, 20th June 2008
Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:39 GMT, in reply to smarttedebear in message 5
In which case your m's. m. n. would be Jane Smith - as mine is for any unofficial purposes, like Sainsbury's points cards. My real m's. m. n. is so uncommon as to be a security hazard, should the information get out. Too many questions asked unnecessarily, imo - as Matt should have said to Lilz. -
Message 11
Posted by Fire-Pig - proud to wave the protest banner (U12231213) on Friday, 20th June 2008
My real m's. m. n. is so uncommon as to be a security hazard, should the information get out. Â
I had never thought of this being a security issue. My mother had never met anyone other than her immediate family with the same surname as her maiden name until she was in her 80s. Then it came out that he was from a branch of the family that 'married out' and were 'exiled'. She is not English by birth but is now British. -
Message 12
Posted by Gene Bailey (U2924633) on Thursday, 26th June 2008
If you are adopted you produce your adoption crtificate instead of your birth certificate.Â
Not quite right, the adoption order is not the same thing, what you are thinking of is called "A Certified Copy Of An Entry In The Adopted Childrens Register" and it looks just like a birth certificate, except that it has no reference on it to mother or father. The short version is almost identical to a short birth certificate, except for the title.
My eldest daughter was adopted by us in 1979 and the adoption order was useless when I tried to claim child tax allowance. It was the "certified copy of and entry" which was the right document. -
Message 13
Posted by lurker-in-the-shadows (U8716739) on Friday, 27th June 2008
Matt would have been issued with an adoption certificate at the time of his adoption and this is to all intents and purposes the same as a birth certificate. (It is equivalent to the short certificate anyway).If your name is changed by your adoptive parents then that name appears on the certficate and it does state that it is an adoption certificate but it can be used for passports etc. Since the Children Act of (can't remember if it was '75 or '76) it has been possible for adopted 'children' to apply to St Catherine's House for a copy of their original birth certificate. Because of his age I think it is quite likely that Matt's name would have been changed on his adoption and there is a procedure to go through to find out your original name before you can get your birth certificate. I think modern adopters like to keep the children's original names quite often especially if they were older children at the time of the adoption. IMO changing even the Chritian name's (as mine were) is a form of identity theft but hey ho ...
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Message 14
Posted by Gene Bailey (U2924633) on Saturday, 28th June 2008
Quite correct. The adoption certificate, or "Certified Copy of and Entry......" fulfills the same purpose as a Birth Certificate.
The Children Act, 1989, does indeed give adopted children the right to a copy of their original Birth Certificate, but Matt's adoption would have pre-dated this provision. Depending on the age of the child at adoption, they may or may not have used their original name, so may not notice a change of surname (if it were changed) anyway. -
Message 15
Posted by PrincessMakeBelieve (U12027202) on Saturday, 28th June 2008
Not quite right.
Matt's adoptive parents would have been issued with an adoption certificate, but that was 50-odd years ago. Whether or not Matt is now in possession of that certificate is another matter entirely.
As I said above, my OH was adopted as a baby over 50 years ago and he has absolutely no paperwork regarding his adoption, because his parents never gave him any. The same applies to his adopted (but not blood related) sister. After their adopted mother died, she applied to the local Council for information on her adoption and now knows her birth name, mother's name and where she was born, but had to attend an interview or somesuch with the Council official/officer to get the info. She wasn't just sent it through the post.
PMB -
Message 16
Posted by Almond_Aire (U2259917) on Saturday, 28th June 2008
We *know* Matt has his certificate because he told Lil that the cert she thought was his birth cert was his adoption cert.
Alma. -
Message 17
Posted by lurker-in-the-shadows (U8716739) on Wednesday, 2nd July 2008
Gene Bailey
It doesn't matter if the adoption was before the legislation - you are still able to acquire the original birth certificate. I remember at the time of the 70s legislation on the subject, one argument was that women who had given up their babies secure in the knowledge they cuold never be traced woud be made anxious by this possibility. At the time I felt and still do, a little anxiety seems a small price to pay for creating an unwanted life and then dumping it like so much trash ... compared with what the piece of 'trash' has to live with for a lifetime ... -
Message 18
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Wednesday, 2nd July 2008
old-saddo in message 17 a small price to pay for creating an unwanted life and then dumping it like so much trash But what if the father's name is not on the birth certificate? how is his anxiety weighed up?
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