Messageboard
Notes and Queries permalink
Debbie and Brian - Hidden feelings?
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Â
Posted by BlueLagoon (U7609387) on Friday, 3rd October 2008
I've read many times (DTA) that there is an unspoken (dark) attraction between Debbie and Brian which has never been acted upon. Is there any truth in this, has there been any dialogue between them them which may indicate untold feelings?
If this was so it would make listening to their scenes spellbinding, but if there's no truth in it then ... well it's just dismissed hearsay. -
Message 2
Posted by Vicarshusband (U6051871) on Friday, 3rd October 2008
Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:35 GMT, in reply to wildballoonlady in message 1
Views vary on this. I think there's something in their voices when they're together in a scene... and in Debbie's response to Brian's carrying on (a more extreme response in some ways than Jenny's?) - almost like jealousy.
But there has been absolutely nothing concrete or definite, it's all interpretation (not quite the same as hearsay).
VH -
Message 3
Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
Isn't (could be a bit out) the term 'Unrequited Sexual Tension' appropriate between Brain and Debbie?
The same sort of emotion drives a lot of soaps, novels etc with the most obvious one being the relationship between Stephen Tompkinson's Catholic priest and Dervla Kirwan's Pub landlady in the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú's Ballykissnagel and also the 1980s TV version of the Thorn Birds.
I'm a Ctaholic myself and if I were a priest my faith would have been sorely tempted by the awesome Assumpta! -
Message 4
Posted by JoLean (U2258866) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
I'd never thought it until the affair with Siobhan was revealed (and Rory's parentage). Debbie's violently jealous reaction cannot be explained (to me) in father/daughter terms. You may be angry with your father (or stepfather to be factual) for hurting/betraying your mother, but Debbie's reaction was several rungs along from that. I was on one of my breaks from the MB then, so it is not a message board reaction (and in fact I think it may have been this that drove me back here at that time!), but I definitely thought DEbbie revealed some hitherto un-heard sexual feelings for Brian at the time. And Brian's reaction to Debbie seemed similar - he seemed more upset about her finding out than Jenny. But then, perhaps that's because Brian was an unfeeling sod.
-
Message 5
Posted by mike (U2254029) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
Sat, 04 Oct 2008 11:29 GMT, in reply to JoLean in message 4
People have also (in the past) detected a certain frisson in the David/Debbie conversations. When this was put to Tim Bentinck in an interview he said that it wasn't deliberate (i.e. scripted). I think this mainly down to TG having a very sexy voice.
There is no biological/genetic reason why Brian and Debbie shouldn't have a relationship. Most listeners would still consider it shocking, of course, and Jenny probably wouldn't be very happy about it. -
Message 6
Posted by BlueLagoon (U7609387) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
I suppose it depends on what age Debbie was when Brian became a father figure to her. If she was just a child then I should think it's crossing a line for her and Brian to 'get it on' now. If she was in her late teens/early 20's then it's possible they would have developed different 'unfamily' feelings?
It would be interesting to ask TG or Brian during one of their interviews. Unless Keri can throw any light on the matter? -
Message 7
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
n reply to wildballoonlady in message 6
Debbie Travers-Macy was about 6 when Brian married Jennifer. -
Message 8
Posted by GT49er (U1745246) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
I also think that Debbie thinks of Brian more as a father than anything else because she took his name. MAdam didn't (they were both given the choice).
-
Message 9
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
Debbie only chose to be "known as" Aldridge when she was 21, and got fed up with roger rogering her mother.
After Jen married Brian, Adam and Debbie both dropped the Travers- from their names, and were known as Macy. -
Message 10
Posted by Afan Argoll (U11565445) on Saturday, 4th October 2008
Wasn't it partly explained by her own recent unveiling of her husband Simon's infidelity, and having appreciated Brian's support, only to find he had been doing the same thing all the while. Of course again, this is complicated by Brian's violent objection to Simon, which seemed to have an edge of jealousy about it....
-
Message 11
Posted by GT49er (U1745246) on Sunday, 5th October 2008
chose to be "known as" Aldridge when she was 21Â Quite. She took Brian (her stepfather)'s name; MAdam didn't.
-
Message 12
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Sunday, 5th October 2008
<-timestamreply to GT49er in message 11
But precisely! she /was/ an adult, when she chose (bit like when some women chose to take the surname of a spouse). Adam didn't chose to take Brian's family name when he reached his majority, perhaps because he didn't think it mattered, since he was not a child? -
Message 13
Posted by GT49er (U1745246) on Sunday, 5th October 2008
It was only you who mentioned her age at the time she made her decision. I merely stated (quite correctly) that she chose to become an Aldridge, MAdam didn't.
qed -
Message 14
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Sunday, 5th October 2008
message 13
I was writing this in the context of whether it is relevant to possible inappropriate feelings for a step-father on Deborah's behalf. I stated that also quite correctly. -
Message 15
Posted by cat_lady (U2262333) on Sunday, 5th October 2008
No No No No No!! Pleeaassse! As I wrote many years ago: support my campaign KIOOTA. Keep Incest Out Of The Archers. No debate. c/lx
-
Message 16
Posted by GT49er (U1745246) on Monday, 6th October 2008
Age doesn't come into it.
-
Message 17
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Tuesday, 7th October 2008
Wbl: I suppose it depends on what age Debbie was when Brian became a father figure to her.
Rt: Debbie Travers-Macy was about 6 when Brian married Jennifer.
That's where age comes into it: -
Message 18
Posted by BlueLagoon (U7609387) on Tuesday, 7th October 2008
Hopefully Keri can throw some light onto it. I thought the reason Brian didn't like Debbie's then husband was because he'd either been unfaithful (or violent?) to her not because he was jealous of their relationship.
-
Message 19
Posted by Flipper Neck (U2270473) on Tuesday, 7th October 2008
Maybe there is, buried down in the subconcious. But as we only see what the SWs deem to reveal, we can't really know. As people have said, it could contribute to the explanation of some motivations (Brians dislike of wossname, the Canadian bloke, and Debbies reaction to Siobhan)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting is that I do recall the occasion when she called him "dad" many years ago. It was important enough for Brian to remark to Jennifer on this fact, he was most chuffed. And for some reason it lodged in my memory. I can't remember when it was though. -
Message 20
Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Tuesday, 7th October 2008
< I thought the reason Brian didn't like Debbie's then husband was because he'd either been unfaithful (or violent?) to her not because he was jealous of their relationship.>
Brian's negative reaction to Debbie's husband (any of her suitors come to that) has always seemed to be out of proportion.
IMO it's fueled mainly by sexual jealousy on Brian's part(s!)but then I don't have an eligible daughter so maybe it's a father's natural reaction to be hyper-critical and overly protective in such circumstances.
Had they not been related in the way they are then Brian and Debbie would have made a well suited couple regardless - because of? - the age difference. -
Message 21
Posted by loveinamist (U2258936) on Wednesday, 8th October 2008
Wasn't it partly explained by her own recent unveiling of her husband Simon's infidelity, and having appreciated Brian's support, only to find he had been doing the same thing all the while. Â
Yes it was, in fact I remember it as being even more complicated than that.
As I remember, Simon was with Brenda (Tucker) when he bumped into Brian and Siobhan. Simon realised what was going on and persuaded Brian not to tell Debbie about Brenda on pain of him telling Debbie about Siobhan. When Debbie found out about Simon anyway, Simon promptly told her about Brian having an affair and Debbie didn't believe him. Once she knew for certain, she then realised that probably Brian had known that Simon was playing away and had concealed the information from her to protect Siobhan.
I don't think there is anything between Brian and Debbie. It is difficult in a Radio soap to express emotion as there is no facial expression or body language to assist. Sometimes the wrong type of emotion comes across. There was a time when lots of us thought that Adam fancied Debbie - that's how wrong you can be! -
Message 22
Posted by Afan Argoll (U11565445) on Sunday, 12th October 2008
Oh yes, and Debbie felt all the more betrayed by Brian because of here initial assumption that it must have been a malicious lie on Simon's part. Did Debbie even tell Brian that Simon had alleged this? I've got a feeling she did, and that Brian initially held to it being Simon's untrue story when Debbie confronted him with the handkerchief evidence.... -
Message 23
Posted by Swedey (U4339411) on Tuesday, 14th October 2008
Well remembered loveinamist - I'm with you on this.
No sexual attraction, just Brine being an arse. -
Message 24
Posted by loveinamist (U2258936) on Wednesday, 15th October 2008
just Brine being an arse.Â
Yes Brian was very arsey at that point wasn't he? Sometimes when I hear Adam sneering at him, or Jenny snarling at him I have to try to remember times like that or I'm in danger of going too far over to Brian's side of the argument! -
Message 25
Posted by mike (U2254029) on Wednesday, 15th October 2008
Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:19 GMT, in reply to cat_lady in message 15
No No No No No!! Pleeaassse! As I wrote many years ago: support my campaign KIOOTA. Keep Incest Out Of The Archers. No debate.Â
Brian and Debbie would not be incest because they aren't related. (No blood relation and Roger wouldn't let Brian adopt Debbie.)
Brian disliked Simon because he instantly recognised another philanderer when he met him (imho). (Takes one to know one.) -
Message 26
Posted by BlueLagoon (U7609387) on Thursday, 16th October 2008
** Brian and Debbie would not be incest because they aren't related. **
Well that's not strictly true as where would you draw the line? If a child is legally adopted and later (after being brought up in a father/daughter relationship) they embarked on a sexual relationship, then that surely is a form of incest. Although Brian didn't adopt Debbie he was her father figure from her being age 6. It's surely crossing a line to look at your 'daughter' in another light? -
Message 27
Posted by Swedey (U4339411) on Thursday, 16th October 2008
I agree wildballonlady, but I have no idea how the law would look at it.
-
Message 28
Posted by Lemon Sabotage (U9577550) on Thursday, 16th October 2008
IIRC, Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, Soon-Yi.
Although there was no blood relationship, many people thought it was bizarre and unnatural. -
Message 29
Posted by mike (U2254029) on Thursday, 16th October 2008
Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:05 GMT, in reply to wildballoonlady in message 26
It's surely crossing a line to look at your 'daughter' in another light?Â
Daughter - yes: 'daughter' - no. -
Message 30
Posted by al-in-a-field (U3325483) on Thursday, 16th October 2008
this questions of dobbins and brinard comes up ever so often. I /still/ can't see (hear) it.
But hey, it's clearly providing a great deal of fun to the speculators -
Message 31
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Friday, 17th October 2008
wildballoonlady has asked for my opinion on this.
We have never had any intention to suggest a sexual attraction in either direction between Brian and Debbie. Certainly they were very close, but that was a father/daughter relationship only - and now sadly ruined becuase of Brian's various betrayals. -
Message 32
Posted by Vicarshusband (U6051871) on Friday, 17th October 2008
Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:26 GMT, in reply to Keri Davies - Host in message 31
Thanks, Keri.
Don't expect that to squash the speculation, though!
VH -
Message 33
Posted by DragonFluff (U6879248) on Saturday, 18th October 2008
Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:06 GMT, in reply to StirchleyAdult in message 28
IIRC, Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, Soon-Yi.Â
Soon-Yi was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow and Andre Previn. Woody Allen was married to Mia Farrow. -
Message 34
Posted by Lemon Sabotage (U9577550) on Saturday, 18th October 2008
Sorry, Dragonfluff, I hadn't realised that.
Still considered vaguely unnatural by some folk though. -
Message 35
Posted by DragonFluff (U6879248) on Saturday, 18th October 2008
Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:51 GMT, in reply to StirchleyAdult in message 34
Oh, I agree with you there, Stirchley. Not a forbidden relationship, but something not quite right about it, all the same. I think it's something about him being an adult in a position of trust - as a step parent, I think he was.
Back to the topic - I always felt that Debbie's outrage at Brian was based on her feelings of anger on behalf of her mother. Not been in the position myself, but if one parent cheats on another, I'm sure many offspring would be angry at the one who'd been unfaithful and feel protective towards the other parent, regardless of whether one or other are the natural parents. -
Message 36
Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Sunday, 19th October 2008
< Back to the topic - I always felt that Debbie's outrage at Brian was based on her feelings of anger on behalf of her mother. Not been in the position myself, but if one parent cheats on another, I'm sure many offspring would be angry at the one who'd been unfaithful and feel protective towards the other parent, regardless of whether one or other are the natural parents. >
Two wrongs don't make a right (though two Wrights made an aeroplane) but Jennydahling hasn't been true to her marriage vows herself. -
Message 37
Posted by Rural Rosie (U2796791) on Monday, 27th October 2008
<>
I can well remember when Debbie was doing A levels including French A level (so age 16 or 17), or perhaps after she had done the exams but before she went to university (so aged 18), Brian took Debbie but not anyone else for a week (I think) away in Paris. At the time there was some on-going news story about child sex abuse in which males in a position of trust (priests, youth leaders, step-fathers etc) took advantage of their situation and so I think there was some speculation on air (on some discussion programme) about Brian's motives. I also think (but I am not RosieT, so cannot access evidence and this may be false memory) that on TA someone asked Jennifer what she thought about Brian taking Debbie away and she replied in her defensive voice that she thought it was very good for them both to improve their relationship and it would also give Debbie a chance to practise her French.
When they came back they both said they had a great time and they gave Jenny an expensive dress as consolation for not having gone too. There seemed to be no story point to the holiday (unless it was the dress which was worn and admired on some later occasion). Given the news that was current then, it was possibly meant as a demonstration to the public that step-fathers can also have good relationships with their step-daughters. But ever since then, whenever there has been tension between Brian and Debbie, I have remembered we were never told what they did together in Paris, so it has always meant in my mind that there is room for developing a SL with a history going back to that holiday. Actually though, I am rather glad to learn from Keri that this is not a SL in waiting. -
Message 38
Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Monday, 27th October 2008
Intended or not I have always thought there was a more than a frisson of sexual tension between Brian and Debbie. My interpretation was that both of them have shown a somewhat unhealthy interest in the sox life of each other but as Mr Keri has kiboshed, my inference is incorrect.
I'm certainly no Ruth - in that I'm not pruriently interested to the nth degree about other people's sox lives - but to me the undercurrent was/is always there.
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or  to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú iD
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú navigation
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú links
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú © 2014 The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.