Messageboard
Notes and Queries permalink
One and Other Forth Plinth Project
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Â
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Why is the forth plinth project never referred to by its correct name - One and Other - by Linda?
Is it because this might hint at the fact that she is totally misrepresenting the point of this 'art' by running her auditions and setting herself up as a judge as whom should enter, when entry to the /national/ ballot for who gets a spot on the plinth is actually open to /everyone/ and /anyone/ over age sixteen who lives in the UK.
I would like to know therefore
a) if the Anthony Gormley One and Other project was asked if it minded its work being misrepresented in this way by TAs. and
b) how TAs programme makers would feel if their artistic creativity was deliberately warped and misrepresented in this way. -
Message 2
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Monday, 20th April 2009
I'll second that.
Of all the inane stories given to this character over the years this one takes the cake. Or should I say loaf - because to compound the badly researched plinth rot we now have badly researched bread recipes. Or is it all turning into a massive spot the deliberate mistake competition?
Surely the collective brains of the SWs must be aware of the plinth conditions as Polly says. So is it just a case of brazening out an initial mistake?
We get enuff ruddy panto in the run-up to Christmas. This sort of continued exposure to Lynda's daftness is sorely trying my human rights.
MJ -
Message 3
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Message 1:
Well, I can't speak for Anthony Gormley, of course, but it occurs to me that point b) is exactly what happens on this message board every day (example----most of the stuff posted on DTA about Ruth!)
Here's a link:
-
Message 4
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Message 1---My guess is that the Sws have chosen to refer to the project as 'The Anthony Gormley Fourth Plint Project' (or words to that effect---'Forth' is a nice idea btw--why not move it to Scotland after it's been in Trafalgar Square!) because then the average listener will know what's being talked about. And there's nothing to suggest that, having tried in her usual Lynda way to stir up some enthusiasm for standing on the plinth, she won't be directing them to the correct website to register.
-
Message 5
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Oh dear...PLINTH, I meant to say---I've put in a typo too, we're all fallible....
And the Gormley SL on TA is just a bit of fun, surely? And a nice topical reference, although not everyone will enjoy it, I know..... -
Message 6
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 20th April 2009
The only difference is. We are invited here to make our comments on the programme. That is the purpose of these MBs. They could not function without us, or our 'interpretations' of fictional characters and fictional storylines. That you obviously think most of what is posted about Ruth is a misinterpretation, and I don't, is a matter of perception and there is no wrong or right about it.
The One and Other project is real. It has clear parameters and objectives. The programme makers have chosen to ignore these and reinterpret them for their own uses (Keri said because it was thought it would be a fun. I cannot quote you chapter and verse on in which thread he said this, but he did, in answer to my boringly persistent asking of this same question within DTA).
There is a wrong and a right about how to interpret the One and Only project, there is no grey area, nothing open to debate and perception. And the programme makers are purposely and deliberately representing it wrongly. -
Message 7
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Well, I can see that's your view, Pollyanna----but I agree with Keri on this one!
-
Message 8
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 20th April 2009
The day Lynda is heard suddenly retracting everything she has said, all her blathering on and on about this bluddy topic to Robert, arm twisting people in the village etc, and calls the whole thing off by redirecting people to the official website, is the day I will know the programme makers have realised what a complete ****s up they have made of this whole thing.
Thank you for drawing attention to my spelling slip up. Always helpful. -
Message 9
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 20th April 2009
And so relieved we are all fallible. Not just me then; I would never have realised.
-
Message 10
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Like I said, just a bit of fun, surely?
-
Message 11
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 20th April 2009
If you say so Mircalla: absolutely hilarious.
Lost. Will. To Live. -
Message 12
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Why? We all have different views....
-
Message 13
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Because it is plain WRONG.
And it is going ON and ON and ON, Mircalla.
What else can we have misrepresented for "a bit of fun"?
Goodness, we could be entering very dangerous territory here.
Everyone is going on about Helen being unhinged at the moment but glory be, for me it's the Snell woman who apart from being a receptionist, B&Ber, parish councillor and contributor to B-Life (which has been forgotten) has now become obsessed with a misconstrued arts project.
And no-one in the village disabuses her of her mistaken notion.
And anyone who listens to this tosh and isn't au fait with the set-up will be equally misled.
Rant over.
MJ -
Message 14
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Monday, 20th April 2009
misconstrued interpretation of an arts project
I meant to say
I blame the errors on rising blood pressure due to plinth disease.
MJ -
Message 15
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Well, I'm not irritated by the plinth being mentioned on TA, MsMJ---and I speak as an admirer of Anthony Gormley's work----and I also think that anyone with access to a computer or to newspapers can find out the finer details of 'One and Other' for themselves!
-
Message 16
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Monday, 20th April 2009
I am not disputing the merit or indeed otherwise of Anthony Gormley's work, Mircalla and I am well aware of the fact that anyone with access to a computer ot to newspapers can find out the finer details (though I would dispute the subject of which we are speaking here is a "finer detail") for themselves.
The fact of the matter is that not one single resident of Ambridge appears to have done so, despite being more than familiar with the artist's name - down to Bert Fry and Mr Pullen I expect.
MJ -
Message 17
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
And if you follow that link and read the blog on it, you'll find an entry that says they 'know' the forthcomimg plot of The Archers and are excited about it! (I assume they must just mean the plinth SL) So TA has got a mention on 'One and Other'....
-
Message 18
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Oh lord Mircalla, I draw the line at blogs.
Now I really must go and do something desperately unartistic like hang out the washing.
Before getting down to finish a painting ...
MJ -
Message 19
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
I only mentioned the reference to TA on the 'One and Other' website's blog in order to reassure those who may be worried about the issue (see the OP), that there seems to be no evidence so far that those organising the project are upset about Lynda Snell......
-
Message 20
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
There is a wrong and a right about how to interpret the One and Only project, there is no grey area, nothing open to debate and perception. And the programme makers are purposely and deliberately representing it wrongly Â
Btw, that's a bit of a serious charge isn't it?
In the absence of Keri, I have done my best to help with your query about One and Other---and I quite enjoyed looking up the websites on the subject.
And here is what Anthony Gormley said about 'One and Other'--that it's designed to reflect 'the diversity, vulnerability and particularity of the individual in contemporary society. It could be tragic but it could also be funny'.
So---a bit like ML really! -
Message 21
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Its exactly whats going on. They are purposely and deliberately not explaining the truth about how one gets a place on the fourth plinth, so that they can have a storyline in which Lynda is misleading the whole of Ambridge. If they aren't doing it on purpose, they are doing it out of ignorance, and Keri has already said that isn't true, that they fully understand the criteria of the plinth project, but they thought this storyline would be fun.
But as you say, you are not Keri. If Keri feels I have misunderstood the situation I am sure he will let me know by and by.
Thank you also for doing your best to answer my query, on Keri's behalf. But I too have looked at the brief mention of The Archers on the One and Other site. It does not say what they think the storyline, just that they know its going on. So not really an answer to my question. And definitely not to my second, obviously. -
Message 22
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Ah--I see! I thought you meant the Sws were deliberately misleading the audience about the plinth for some obscure purpose of their own. Or that you meant the Sws hadn't done the background research.
But now you've said that they're doing it to have a comedy plot about Lynda not understanding about the website and how to register your interest. That's a different thing entirely. And that might be might be implausible, of course, Lynda is usually very thorough.
Your OP asked how the organisers of One and Other felt about the representation of the project on TA. The blog says they've had exciting news and learnt about the plot on TA.
That suggests they're not outraged---which your OP suggested they should be. -
Message 23
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
But as you say, you are not Keri. Â
I don't remember saying that I wasn't Keri, but you're right---I'm not. I just hope that when and if he reads this thread he finds it suitably hilarious...think a few wires have got crossed here.... -
Message 24
Posted by Keri Davies (U2219620) on Monday, 20th April 2009
I really don't know why you are suggesting that we have some malign objective to misrepresent this project, pollyanna.
Our storyline was developed in consultation with the organisers of the real-life event. Although we have no remit to publicise or praise it (or indeed denigrate it), I would imagine that they are delighted at the continued references to the event, over a period of months, on a programme that reaches the best part of five million listeners. -
Message 25
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Thank you for that response, Keri. I thought that must be the case when I tried to help with the 'Notes and Queries' OP on this thread.
-
Message 26
Posted by Dragonfly (U2223700) on Monday, 20th April 2009
Isn't it just possible that the SWs thought this was how Lynda would behave, and that the mere fact that Lynda was involved would persuade most of the village that they wanted nothing to do with this? Also quite possible that at some point soon somebody else will point out that while Lynda is quite entitled as a Parish Councillor to try to co-ordinate an Ambridge entry, anyone can apply as an individual. I can't get terribly worked up about this one way or the other. It's one of Lynda's passing fads, that's all.
-
Message 27
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Monday, 20th April 2009
FWIW, if someone said to me "what do you think about the 'One & Other' project?", I would not have had an earthly idea what they were talking about. By referring to it as the Fourth Plinth Project I know exactly what it is*. So that part of the TA coverage has worked.
* - A load of London-centric ballox. Put the bluddy plinth in Brum for a month, & then Liverpool, & Manchester, & Glasgow, & Newcastle, & Cardiff, & Inverness, & Aberystwyth. There's more "navel-gazing" in London than at a sodding Admiralty Review! Mispelt pun intended.... -
Message 28
Posted by DanskRose (U2257282) on Monday, 20th April 2009
"I would imagine that they are delighted at the continued references to the event, over a period of months, on a programme that reaches the best part of five million listeners."
I am not eligible for the plinth, neither being resident nor having a head for heights. Wasn't poll's question at least partly whether people in the UK generally will hear Lynda telling people that they can only enter under the ægis and permission of their local (councillor/busybody?).
If that were so, would the organisers not prefer that were set right and the public who only hear of it through TA actually hear that anyone may enter and no vetting or permission is needed?
Thinking of promoting an upside down plinth here BTW. We enter a draw to sit in a hole for while and play with the snakes/ drink beer, watch neighbours etc. -
Message 29
Posted by RosieT (U2224719) on Monday, 20th April 2009
to Danzac(Dansk)Rose in message 28
or "play" on the laptop? -
Message 30
Posted by DanskRose (U2257282) on Monday, 20th April 2009
What are you suggesting? Every single activity undertaken on my laptop is of a serious and usually widely educational to others, nature. You've read (and probably learned much from) my posts - you should know that!
Have to go now. You tube calls. -
Message 31
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Thank you for your reply Keri. May I ask an additional two.
Is Lynda at anytime going to explain to the population of Ambridge that they do not have to apply via an audition held by her and judged by her. That they can apply direct to the project organisers (entries open today) and will or will not be selected by a completely random ballot.
Was the purpose of this storyline to make us believe all the inhabitants of Ambridge are ignorant and do not read newspapers or listen or watch the news, and rely totally on Lynda for her interpretation of how to apply to take part in One and Other? That even the vaguely 'intellectual' such as Jennifer or Pat would not know the real situation, and tell Lynda, and other people, they her intervention was not required if people wanted to apply?
Because that is how this storyline is unfolding for me. A real event being manipulated to fit with fictional characters and their reactions, for fun, as you said previously. Which is of course your prerogative. But it is manipulation and a misrepresentation of the true. real life, situation, to fit an archerseque storyline.
Which is what I've been saying all along. I have never at any point said Keri that the programme had any 'malign objective' in misrepresenting this project. I would be glad if you could point out where I have. -
Message 32
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
I would like to know therefore
a) if the Anthony Gormley One and Other project was asked if it minded its work being misrepresented in this way by TAs. and
b) how TAs programme makers would feel if their artistic creativity was deliberately warped and misrepresented in this way. Â
How about this? The phrase 'deliberately warped' is bit strong isn't it? Not to mention the somewhat combatative tone of your OP....and later on in the thread, I quoted something else you said that implied TA programme makers weren't being responsible in their use of this SL.
I've tried to help you with your concerns--and Keri's answered your question. And now you're still banging on about it!
I honestly think that maybe you should let go it now---it's only a radio soap and the reference to 'One and Other' on TA are just a bit of fun---and the organisers have not expressed a gripe over it. -
Message 33
Posted by DanskRose (U2257282) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Similarly, it could be said that the phrase
"And now you're still banging on about it!" is a bit strong, isn't it?
pollyanna is asking the question many have asked and has not yet been answered - namely, why is a normal, at least averagely educated village failing to tell Lynda that she is radically misrepresenting the whole idea and is being absolutely vile and authoritarian as a result of said misrepresentation?
Though it has been hugely entertaining and instructive to see you assuming the mantle of Keri's second in command.
Myself, I have hopes that someone, somewhere will tell her soon where she gets off and that the whole village has already entered without reference to her, having from day one been able to read the simple rules. I think that's still quite possible and I look forward to it. -
Message 34
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Count the posts Mircalla and then reflect on exactly who is banging on most.
MJ -
Message 35
Posted by Mircalla Karnstein (U2224491) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Possibly Pollyanna has 'banged on the most', MsMJ---as she has apparently been asking these questions elsewhere!
As she says here:
(Keri said because it was thought it would be a fun. I cannot quote you chapter and verse on in which thread he said this, but he did, in answer to my boringly persistent asking of this same question within DTA). Â
Danzac---I wasn't aware that only Keri was allowed to answer 'Notes and Queries'.
Leaving this thread now--I did my best to help! Have a nice day..... -
Message 36
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Heroic effort MK.
This SL is completely daft for a programme that prides itself on being about RL country folk (or whatever the phrase is) unless it wants to prove that they're all ridiculously stupid.
I can't believe that someone hasn't already checked the website - if only because the denizens are always so keen to burst Lynda's balloon and humiliate her. Surely Robert would have picked up on Lynda's mistake by now and gently pointed out what was going on? -
Message 37
Posted by DanskRose (U2257282) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Of course I wasn't suggesting that anyone can't have a bash, Mircalla, but your
In the absence of Keri, I have done my best to help with your query about One and Other-
Thank you for that response, Keri. I thought that must be the case when I tried to help with the 'Notes and Queries' OP on this thread.
I've tried to help you with your concerns--and Keri's answered your question. And now you're still banging on about it!
had a bit of a ring of, "Be quiet and accept what I and the SWs say" to it, to my mind. Maybe your tone when you post, maybe my interpretation when I read. -
Message 38
Posted by Oz (U6102444) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Leaving this thread now--I did my best to help! Have a nice day....
I think you are confusing help with instruct -
Message 39
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Some people on this and other threads appear to be riding their personal hobby horses as if they were approaching Beecher's Brook at Aintree ...
It is only my (pretty bluddy firm) /recollection/ that, on air, we have been told this is a ballot & that Lynda is merely seeking an entry to the ballot from someone representative of Ambridge qua Ambridge/Rural life, rather than themselves.
However, much more importantly, Lynda has *also* made it crystal clear on the Ambridge website (story dated c.12th March) that her efforts are in relation to a /ballot/:
I think Lynda - not to mention Keri & the SWs - are due an apology. -
Message 40
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Micalla thank you so much yet again for trying to help me with my concerns. Unfortunately you are not involved in making the programme (unless I am under a wrong impression there), so if you don't mind, I'd rather wait to see if Keri replies and read what he says.
As for me still banging on about this. That is up to me. Its what these message boards are for. Are you implying there is a limit to how many times one can post on the same subject? Because if so, can I point out I have made eight posts here, and about three on other threads in the past about this topic (and that was in DTA, if you are keeping individual scoreboards), whereas you have posted fifteen times in this thread. I think that about makes us quits.
But yet again, thank you for trying to sort this out for me. I just regret I am so dim I am able to be satisfied with your response, and need to continue 'banging on'. -
Message 41
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
However, much more importantly, Lynda has *also* made it crystal clear on the Ambridge website (story dated c.12th March) that her efforts are in relation to a /ballot/:Â To me, _this_ suggests that the ballot is /officially/ in Derek and Lynda's gift, not that *anyone * may enter:
"I have agreed with Mr Fletcher, chair of the parish council, that Ambridge should put forward its own representative into the ballot." -
Message 42
Posted by DanskRose (U2257282) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
That's how I read it when I went to the link.
-
Message 43
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
reply to Danzac(Dansk)Rose in message 30
I apologise, Dansk.
I was paraphrasing Felicity Frinch. -
Message 44
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:29 GMT, in reply to rosietonthemove
Oh Rosie, come come ... that is a somewhat far-fetched interpretation of Lynda's words, even taking that sentence on its own, out of context, & without regard to what preceded it.
However, given that a couple of paragraphs earlier Lynda had written,
This living artwork will run for a hundred days from 6 July to 14 October, and will involve 2,400 people, chosen by ballot from all over the UK, who will stand on the plinth for an hour each. What will they do there? Anything legal. What can they take? Anything they can carry. What does it all mean? A very good question. I think Lynda makes it as clear as it can possibly be that this is a ballot, for anyone to enter.
In the paragraph you part-quoted Lynda actually said (my asterisks), "I have agreed with Mr Fletcher, chair of the parish council, that Ambridge should put forward its own representative into the ballot. ****Someone whose plinth performance will be the personification of all that is Ambridge - and, by extension, rural England itself.****Â
All in all, I think Lynda's article makes it patently clear that she understands what the Gormley project is about, how it works, that it is a ballot, and that she & Derek are seeking someone to represent Ambridge. Nowhere is she even /implying/ that people cannot enter the ballot directly, to represent themselves, doing whatever the heck they want to do.
I think Lynda (& by extension the SWs) has been rather harshly treated & misrepresented in the criticism of this (otherwise interminably dull & tedious) SL. -
Message 45
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
<I think Lynda - not to mention Keri & the SWs - are due an apology.>
I disagree MG. Keri has already said that the SL has adapted the nature of the project to make it 'fun'.
If someone wanted Ambridge to be represented on the plinth, bearing in mind it is decided by a /ballot/ which implies that there will be more entries than places available, surely the best approach would be to encourage as many people as possible to apply to increase the chance of a denizen being selected?
What on earth was the point of discouraging Joe from auditioning when he can apply separately?
What on earth is the point of going through this rigmarole only for the official candidate not to be picked*?
I've said elsethread that this SL has provoked more spontaneous comments to me about TA than any I can remember - all in terms of what on earth is going on, don't they know it's a ballot and why doesn't anyone in Ambridge seem to be aware of that. It's not the end of the world, it's simply a very irritating SL and I think it means that any future SL where the prodteam asserts that what they're doing is reflecting RL can be met by a justifiable hollow laugh. Own goal but not particularly important.
*Given the contact with the project I'm sure that the official candidate will be picked but if I were coming at this cold, assuming no prior contact between Gormley's project & Ambridge then I would be very reluctant to go through all this malarkey and fall at the last hurdle. What a waste of time that would be. -
Message 46
Posted by MsMumbo-Jumbo (U3613133) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Come, come Mustafa ... this is a radio soap and stands and falls as such. Are we to be expected to turn to the fictional blog of a fictional character to elaborate on this matter?
How many general listeners are even aware of the existence of these messageboards? How many on these messageboards can be arsed to read these add-ons (I for one have far more pressing things to do).
Nah, the SWs have screwed up with this SL and should learn from Obama and come clean.
A ballot is a ruddy ballot.
Time to worry about what to do on the plinth once a place has been procured. And the chances are slim even for real live human beings. So I think the odds must be judged as being considerably longer (longer even than those for a horse and rider falling at Becher's and then remounting and winning the race, to pinch your analogy) for a set of fictional characters to do so.
So what it all comes down to is a complete waste of time when there are far better SLs available.
I for one would pay good money to know how Lewis is really getting on with the Pargetters. Or what the Blossom Hill Cottage people make of Ambridge.
Anything in fact instead of this SL which we knew was going nowhere before it even reached first base.
Or fourth plinth for that matter.
MJ -
Message 47
Posted by rosietonthemove (U2260932) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
****Someone whose plinth performance will be the personification of all that is Ambridge - and, by extension, rural England itself.****Â That sounds, to me, as if they are choosing a rep from each part of England who wishes to enter.
Why is my interpretation "far-fetched" btw?
It's what I interpreted them to mean. -
Message 48
Posted by DanskRose (U2257282) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
"I apologise, Dansk.
I was paraphrasing Felicity Frinch. "
Rosie - I knew that and was replying I hoped in suitably jocular fashion.
Extreme knackerdness may have dulled my sparkling (huh - Ed) wit. -
Message 49
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Let's hope none of the residents of Ambridge reads the Graun. From today's edition, "Antony Gormley invites applicants to stand on Trafalgar Square's fourth plinth":
Actually, let's hope lots of Ambridge residents read the Graun, and trounce Lynda's silly plan en masse.
(For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong in the way the SWs have 'misrepresented' the intentions of the Gormley project. TA is, after all, an entertainment, not an information service. I do however find this SL deeply unfunny and not entertaining in the slightest, but that is about the way it has been done, rather than the fact that the true nature of the Gormley project has been 'warped'.)
'Ö' -
Message 50
Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Tuesday, 21st April 2009
Can I just say that I react to what I hear on TAs and then post about it here. I do not visit the home pages. I do not click on virtual maps. I do not visit the made up websites of fictional characters. I do not read blogs by fictional characters.
It is a radio drama. It has to stand and fall by what is broadcast. If it needs any or all of the above to clarify and make sense of its storylines, to expand on what is (or even isn't) being said on air - in this case, I gather, that Lynda has directed people towards finding out for themselves about One & Other - then what on earth is going on.
Either this is radio drama or its a multi-media interactive experience, with us who soley rely on their radio to follow the plot getting only half the story.
My mind is boggling. Its a radio drama. I am not going to read blogs and websites created by its characters. My life is too short. If that's the only way one can stay 'in the loop' of this programme, I'm happy to be way, way, out of it.
About this Board
Welcome to the Archers Messageboard.
or  to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
This messageboard is now closed.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú iD
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú navigation
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú links
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú © 2014 The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.