Messageboard
Notes and QueriesÌý permalink
Imminent changes to this board
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Tayler, I'd be really grateful if you'd find out what the upshot of the changes announced in this thread will be for this board:
It sounds as though the changes will be somewhat like those recently made to the Food board, which were largely unwelcome. But it's hard to see through the technical and management jargon used in the blog entry. I'd be grateful if you'd find out from them what the practical changes to this board will be, as experienced by its users, and also get them to explain them in plain English.
Many thanks in advance.
'Ö' -
Message 2
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Hi Badge
The look of the message board will change along with the revamped website for The Archers. There will be no changes to the opening hours or the number of topics here - DTA, TBU, TB etc will all remain.
If there's anything in particular you want to know, please post it here.
Thanks
Tayler -
Message 3
Posted by typewright (U14048004) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Tayler - wot, no more mustard????!!!!!!
Leapers (or Mystic Badger), how could you not understand the new proposals?
You may have noticed we have recently refreshed the boards.
We had two main objectives when we began work on the messageboard refresh project:
1. Bringing the visual design in line with the visual refresh happening across the rest of bbc.co.ukÌý
It's refreshing. They're refreshing it. It's visual.
In delivering the first we developed, what we call internally, the vanilla skinsÌý
Is that the same as a vanilla pod? Yum!
Scrum is an iterative process and each iteration is known as a sprint.Ìý
Blimey, they keep changing the rules for rugby.
I mean, what's not to understand? -
Message 4
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Bless 'im. He clearly thinks all messageboards are computer geeks. I know a lot of us are, but speaking as an ignoramus, it would make as much sense to me if it was written in Klingon.
Could you translate at all, Tayler? Into English, I mean, not Klingon if you don't want to! -
Message 5
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Hi typewright
wot no mustard?Ìý
Mustard will feature in the new design. We will always be Mustardland!
Scrum is an iterative process and each iteration is known as a sprint.Ìý
I'd rather not have to explain the Agile/scrum system, but at its simplest, it means the team work from a to-do list (called a "backlog") and systematically work through it, making sure that each item is developed and tested and working properly before moving on to the next one on the list. Hence the "iteration".
Tayler -
Message 6
Posted by Westsussexbird or Birdy aka Westie (U6316532) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Just listening in.
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Message 7
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Hi cricket-Angel Alpert
I'm afraid I don't speak Klingon, but happy to learn if you think it would help!
Tayler -
Message 8
Posted by typewright (U14048004) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Oh joy! We will always be mustardland! And in a very real sense the casserole will always be around us!
Thanks, Tayler.
I don't envy you the geekspeak, btw. -
Message 9
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 17th September 2010
snagging
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Message 10
Posted by Sunny Clouds (U14258963) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Are we going to end up with smaller font like Ouch?
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Message 11
Posted by SussexCornflower InTheFinalCountdown (U13833966) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Hello Tayler.
Will there still be "threads" the same as there are now?
and
Will we get a chance to give feedback on the changes? If so, I would suggest a "comments" box should pop up on the screen for a while at least 2-3 months after the changes have been made.
It can take a while for changes to settle and for the users of the board to make a decision on them. -
Message 12
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Tayler - Google search supports Klingon! -
Message 13
Posted by Black-fevvered mourning Sparrer (U14335374) on Friday, 17th September 2010
That's not computer geek, c-A A, it's project manager geek, which is much worse because PMs know that they aren't really doing the work but they have to try to justify being paid more than the people who are. (So says Feral Techie.)
Hey ho, I shall have to get said Feral Techie to rewrite his/her program that gets ML out of the ghastly web system and into a useful format. Any idea just when this Improvement is coming in? -
Message 14
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Friday, 17th September 2010
That's not computer geek, c-A A, it's project manager geekÌý
Apologies, HedgeSparrow.
You're right, of course -
Message 15
Posted by anEnglishmanInLondon (U9710241) on Friday, 17th September 2010
Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:59 GMT, in reply to Tayler Cresswell - Host in message 2
Will there be a way of allowing the script to work for those of us that currently use it? I understand it won't work on the food board now for example. -
Message 16
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
-
Message 17
Posted by Achilles Grytpype-Thynne (U2328687) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 09:36 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 16
Hi Jont,
Nice to see you in. Hope you are well.
I have been looking at the CSS a bit -- can do debogroll, smiley removal, colour changes easily enough. But I quite understand your apprehension -- it's a complete rewrite.
Best wishes
Achilles -
Message 18
Posted by Sallyruth (U14589711) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Who on earth catpeed studioj?
My god there are some jumpy chaps around.
Archilles and studioj are Kings of Kings, though. -
Message 19
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Oh dear. While I sincerely hope the Script will at some point be available for the new platform, I quite understand if you decide it's not worth the effort.
A good opportunity to thank you both for the wonderful Script as it has been for the past few years; I've valued it enormously.
'Ö' -
Message 20
Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:15 GMT, in reply to anEnglishmanInNewYork in message 15
(repost, substituting the word "shed" for the fainthearted)
The script will need a shedload of code changes... and that requires a shedload of research into the new format.. a lot of research, coding, testing, recoding, retesting.. and that takes a shedload of time. I did a lot of that before. Maybe a thousand hours of the year 2006... plus a fair amount subsequently.
Parts of the script may not be needed any more, parts of it may still be useful but hard/easy to recode in the new format. Parts of it may not be achievable.. I don't know.
Parts of it may just become hardly useful with the newer system. Think.. with a fixed value of 50 post per page it makes some of the cooler features of the script significantly less useful than before. Certainly some of the features we have now will disappear. Whether other features will now be possible, I again don't know and not really sure if I care.
Not really sure I have the will to make all the changes required... particularly with what these boards have now become.. or if I do then it will take some time.
jont {;¬· >···{ -
Message 21
Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:58 GMT, in reply to Achilles Grytpype-Thynne in message 17
Cheers, Achilles, I'm doing okish, a bit down for letting things get on top of me. Hope things are better with you.
I've only had a cursory look at the food board format. The good bit is that the pages are allegedly better structured which should make it easier to navigate the dom... but that still means re-analysing and re-writing a lot of stuff. My main concerns are that there will be features mising because there are chunks of functionality missing from the new system.. or, if they are there, will take a long time to find them (think catch-up from discussions page). Maybe it'll be easy.. who knows.. one can only tell with a lot of investigation and I have other stuff on my plate right now. Of course, as with the previous format, one needs really to have several boards (including this one) on the new format to properly analyse the format(s) in order to be sure to get a generalised solution.
I already had a separate script to deal with bluddy graphical smilies.. but that's sitting on my older machine (along with the whole google AppEngine project that carries the script site) which decided to die the death (fairly terminally, it seems) yesterday. Should I be able to get the deGraphicon script back, it might be interesting to compare it with yours.
jont {;¬· >···{ -
Message 22
Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 11:02 GMT, in reply to Leaping Badger in message 19
Thanks to Badger and Sallyruth(*)
(* who seems to be one version behind.. but hey.. is it worth upgrading now?)
jont {;¬· >···{ -
Message 23
Posted by SussexCornflower InTheFinalCountdown (U13833966) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Oh, right - (daft me) does that mean if I go to the Food Boards now I will get an idea of what ML will be like?
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Message 24
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Oh yes!
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Message 25
Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Taylor,
Can users of this message board expect an imminent and serious degradation of their "Your discussions" information With the following changes expected
- None functional post count of new posts with 'farcical minus millions'
- loss of highlighting of unread posts (because the above fault makes it meaningless/impossible)
- Loss of a link to 'Last Contribution'
- Loss of links within message summary (to differing sections of the arches mb - probably not something that is crucial)
Users may easily get a taste of what the changes are for their own profile, or indeed another's, (such as your profile as Host). It is very easy to do select any of the very many Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú mb and compare how a profile/discussion for yourself or another looks from that mb viewpoint.
It may be useful comparing both the Food mb and the iPlayer one to the current view from the Archers.
The POV mb can also be compared and probably looks much as you would expect.
For the many readers wondering what the
__'farcical millions'__
are it is a bug with the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú mb system that is perpetuated in the newly improved Food mb, the first one to be improved, the Archers is next in line for such improvements.
Have a look at the following for examples of comments already on this subject:
Thread "The Bull > Changes to Messageboards"
- msg# 29 - includes pasted, (almost) screen shot type example -
- msg#42 - must be on your radar Taylor -
- msg#45 - a comment about how long bbc takes to fix bugs -
Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú Blog With comments "Changes to the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú Messageboards"
- msg#27- my comment (with clickable links) about farcical millions bug being known about for months. -
oh and for a list of mb if anyone wishes to try themselves: -
Message 26
Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:32 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 20
Jont, I'd like to thank you, here and now, for all your (& Achilles') work on the Script. It has made life in ML so much more liveable for the past five years (yes, folks, we moved over from Howerd2 to DNA at the end of October 2005) that I cannot honestly imagine lurking/posting in ML without it, especially for the poster id alias function which allow us to give a wide berth to WUMs et al. ML without formatting would be dreary and ML without the subscribe/unsubscribe features tedious to manage.
But but but, I don't honestly think anyone can expect you to deliver another such labour of love, especially since the community of ML has become so fragmented, compared to back in 2005.
Time to be philosophical, methinks. Either we will adapt and/or post less or/and reclaim our RLs.
It may well soon be time to say Goodbye and Thanks for all the fish .... -
Message 27
Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:04 GMT, in reply to E Yore in message 26
Thank you very much, E. Yore.
On the upside I have just found that subbing and unsubbing seems to work, on the downside I haven't yet found a substitute keyword for "&show="
I've tried: count, quantity, qty, q, display, messages, nummessages, number, comments, posts, n, nm, np, p and ohh.. for old time's sake "chunk"
If anyone finds it (if it exists) please let us know.
I do notice that the "This is reply to message NN" won't work out of the box(*) for targets that are not on the current page (naturally) and not on the first page because they do not include an "&skip" value. (* of course, a script could fix that if necessary)
But I really shouldn't be doing any of this... I have my brother dropping by in the next week or so and my house is a complete shedhole, if you get my drift.
Thanks again.
jont {;¬· >···{ -
Message 28
Posted by jane c (U2234970) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
jont, jont, ~~~~~~~~~
I'd just like to join E.Yore in saying how much we appreciate all you do/have done to help people in our ML parallel universe!!
I mustardmit I very often have *no* *clue* at all what you are talking about, being your actual prototype numpty non-computer eejit.
But I sort of revolve silently in the outer orbit of wonderment at what you and Achilles shine at!!
Luv'n'stuff to both of you.
jx -
Message 29
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Hi Tayler,
I've just been looking over some of the Food Board comments.
There are good and bad things that I can see - a new Snork smiley being one of the best things!
Rather worryingly, though, some posters have said they have lost their old Discussions, their My Discussions page only shows a couple of months. Is this a glitch that will be/has been fixed? Or is it a permenant result of the changes?
Thanks. -
Message 30
Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
I guess the smilies are up to individual mb Hosts to chose which if any to allow.
a new Snork smiley being one of the best things!
Ìý
As currently configured differing boards give different results. For a smilie full post with demonstrations of how some discussion pages look see my post:
So even now the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú boards are disorganised. -
Message 31
Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:09 GMT, in reply to John99 in message 30
c-AA is pulling your leg, John. It is a deliberate choice *NOT* to have smilies here rather than a mark of disorganisation. I for one would run for the hills if they appeared. -
Message 32
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:10 GMT, in reply to cricket-Angel Alpert in message 29
a new Snork smiley being one of the best things!Ìý
I'm glad you like it, C-A A! I designed it for this board back in 2005, just before we were told we were going to remain smiley-free, and so I donated it to h2g2 instead. -
Message 33
Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Hi Petal Jam
I had guessed differing boards would make different choices about smilies.
What should not happen is that boards display titles for information but do not then produce that information or if they did attempt it they miscalculate and give ludicrous numbers instead of small integers and in some instances give different results depending on the browser used.
All the boards have (presumably) access to the same dna database and if one board can give correct results all should be able to.
Boards should not give a field entitled total posts and then fail to populate the field with the total number of new posts or whatever. -
Message 34
Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Excellent, Peet
c-AA is pulling your leg, John.Ìý
Not at all.
I *like* the snork smiley - never seen it before. And thought it was wonderfully ironic considering the only place that would really use it is here! -
Message 35
Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:26 GMT, in reply to cricket-Angel Alpert in message 34
We-ell without wishing to cast gloom upon Peet's gifts as a cyber artists I think that 'snork' is a very individual expression. Like our visions of Ambridge, every listener or reader has their own particular version of how a /snork/ should look, feel or sound. So I'm a little reluctant to have one person's version of snork, however carefully researched, imposed upon my own dainty interpretation of the smothered laugh that escapes when you're trying to read Mustard without drawing attention to yourself.
For me, Peet's snork /looks/ too loud. It obviously wasn't developed by someone who had sleeping children nearby. -
Message 36
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Saturday, 18th September 2010
Sat, 18 Sep 2010 22:41 GMT, in reply to cricket-Angel Alpert in message 34
it was wonderfully ironic considering the only place that would really use it is here!Ìý
And here... -
Message 37
Posted by GillthePainter (U2164232) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Firstly, I'm over here as I'd like to say thanks for the Script. It's been great to have it, and I really do miss it, now it doesn't respond on the Food messageboard.
& regarding those imminent changes, over on the food board, it's messy.
Most of the sparkling changes promises must be on the Host and Moderator screens, as not a lot of it has filtered down to the end foodie user.
Just a list of bugs, unresolved, that make it harder to post.
One positive, is you get tabs.
But there has been so much taken away, in it's place. Eg, Paul Merrett's excellent knife sharpening video using a whetstone, featured in the Guardian for it's content.
They've deleted it and replaced it with things like: whipping cream by hand
Now I know I'm being picky, but talk about useless.
So enjoy your posting in ML. But the food board changes haven't been for the better. Ah well. -
Message 38
Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
_FAQs_
Is anyone looking at and reviewing & revising the mb FAQs; which I must say are far better then the standard FAQs on most Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú mb s.
They are already slightly outdated, for instance adding an underline each side of a word does not produce an underlined word.
Presumably they will be further affected by the forthcoming update. As already mentioned your ML script features are going to; at least temporarily; disappear. Currently you also have a box at he left about "add smilies" despite being smiley free. -
Message 39
Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:45 GMT, in reply to John99 in message 38
Umm - yes it _does_ if you are using the Script, as many of us do. Also I am informed by o/h that even where underscore doesn't produce an underline on the screen people will use it to indicate emphasis. [Though that might be confined to his industry.] -
Message 40
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Gill - what please are these "tabs"?<quote>
Message posted by GillthePainter
Firstly, I'm over here as I'd like to say thanks for the Script. It's been great to have it, and I really do miss it, now it doesn't respond on the Food messageboard.
& regarding those imminent changes, over on the food board, it's messy.
Most of the sparkling changes promises must be on the Host and Moderator screens, as not a lot of it has filtered down to the end foodie user.
Just a list of bugs, unresolved, that make it harder to post.
One positive, is you get tabs. -
Message 41
Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
In reply to John99 in message 38
<Is anyone looking at and reviewing & revising the mb FAQs; which I must say are far better then the standard FAQs on most Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú mb s.
They are already slightly outdated, for instance adding an underline each side of a word does not produce an underlined word.>
John, thanks for your kind words about the FAQs. They have been revised several times - by me - but these revisions have not yet made it on to the published version. It's been held back and back, and has now been promised when the website is relaunched, which may or may not happen when the changes to this message board are made (although I think they are separate processes, so may not happen at the same time.
The example you mention isn't actually out of date, because it is prefixed with:
How do I make words bold, italic or underlined?
You can't, unless you're using jont and Achilles' script, but at least if you see characters like the following examples, then you know why they are there. If you have installed the script:Ìý
You are right when you say that much may well become out of date when the changes are made.
'Ö' -
Message 42
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Over on Food we underline with
-
Message 43
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:42 GMT, in reply to Organoleptic Icon in message 42
The problem with that is you run the risk of the vital word(s) being replaced by ... -
Message 44
Posted by GillthePainter (U2164232) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Gill - what please are these "tabs"?Ìý
Brace yourself, Scribbler (OI), I'm going to amaze you ................................ again:
Over the top we have: home/ recipes/ chefs/ programmes etc.
Not quite as beautiful as info/ config/ about/ h2g2/ who's online/ deMoo though! -
Message 45
Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Sorry I looked quickly at the FAQs and did not take it all in, it does make sense when read properly.
I do often use the underline for emphasis or as a bullet type marker. On the iPlayer mb brokrn links are removed quickly by the mods, even when deliberatly posted eg to report a broken link the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú should be aware of such as its own broken link on the iPlayer mb where messages are posted.
This link has been broken for several days now without the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú fixing it. It is contained within the text "If you want to report a problem with a programme, first check that it's not a problem with your computer's setup then see this FAQ on how best to report a problem with a programme. " .
not tried [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] but suspect on some boards they would be removed.
The blog comments accept hyperlinks and they can be entered directly as HTML, no idea how to do it on a mb, the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú mb s do not use Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Úode, presumably you use need the script installed. -
Message 46
Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
If the arches mb is to have similar tabs, and a similar number to those subjects existing currently they will need to be at least three lines deep, otherwise unless written vertically will be truncated to two or three characters.
-
Message 47
Posted by typewright (U14048004) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Ahoy, Mad Jack! I been a-forgettin it were today. (After 19.9.2010 ignore this)
I've used before and it worked. Though I can't work out how to do spaces using it, as is obvious!
What I'd find useful would be to be able to use italics and bold (and, no, sorry, I don't use the script, though it sounds admirable) -
Message 48
Posted by typewright (U14048004) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Shiver me timbers, it does work. It looked wrong in 'preview'.
(I put an underscore between the two words, btw) -
Message 49
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
typewright - you have DONE spaces - or do you mean non-underlined spaces? Think you could only do that with a new dummy for each word.
Gill-th-p - Thanks. They are handy. I thought you meant some message related tabs. -
Message 50
Posted by Halliana (U2407863) on Sunday, 19th September 2010
Too complicated.. leave The Archers MB alone. it works well enough as it is.
Thankyou.
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