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Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Tuesday, 29th November 2011
This is a longstanding bugbear of mine. There are quite often story lines which hinge around what happened in the past. And yet it is impossible for the new listener to find out who these people are.
Why can't who's who have entries for John Archer, Sharon Richards etc?
Why did Betty Tucker have to be removed so that when Mike started with Vicky new listeners were having to ask who she was and what had happened to her?
Keri Davies gave me some snotty reply at the time.
Can new readers find out who Ruairi's mother is?
It's just ridiculous not to have this information (and counter-productive if the idea is to attract new listeners).Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 2
Posted by VictoriaC (U14747899) on Wednesday, 30th November 2011
This is a longstanding bugbear of mine. There are quite often story lines which hinge around what happened in the past. And yet it is impossible for the new listener to find out who these people are.
Why can't who's who have entries for John Archer, Sharon Richards etc?
Why did Betty Tucker have to be removed so that when Mike started with Vicky new listeners were having to ask who she was and what had happened to her?
Keri Davies gave me some snotty reply at the time.
Can new readers find out who Ruairi's mother is?
It's just ridiculous not to have this information (and counter-productive if the idea is to attract new listeners). Â I agree. I was also searching for John Archer after listening to today's episode, being relatively new to The Archers. And I was surprised to not find him on the Who's Who list. He doesn't seem like such a minor character to be left out.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 3
Posted by Reggie Trentham (U2746099) on Wednesday, 30th November 2011
I can see the reason why they might be reluctant to include biographies of characters who no longer appear in the programme. How do you do it? Do you write biogs of characters whose names might be mentioned? How do you know who they are going to be? Do you write a biog only when a defunct character gets a mention? Whatever way you do it it's going to use resources that could be used elsewhere.
I rarely look at other parts of the website than the messageboard but I have feeling that bits of back story sometimes used to appear somewhere when old stories resurfaced. Does this still happen?
What about the timeline? Never really looked at it but doesn't that cover past events and characters?. Although I suppose you'd have to know what and when you were looking for.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 4
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Thursday, 1st December 2011
I can see the reason why they might be reluctant to include biographies of characters who no longer appear in the programme. How do you do it?Â
I would have thought they could decide to reatin members of the central families. The link to John Archer leads to a missing page. I don't know about Betty Tucker or Siobhan, I haven't checked.
The timelines only mention certain story lines I think.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 5
Posted by Reggie Trentham (U2746099) on Thursday, 1st December 2011
Yes that would be fine, but even the central families, apart from the clan itself, change over time. There was a time when the Grundys weren't even silents. Then what happens when a long forgotten character is mentioned, like John or Carol Tregorran or even yours truly and people start asking who they were?
Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 6
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Thursday, 1st December 2011
Im' not suggesting that what's on the list be set in stone and never changed ever, but they removed Betty Tucker within about three weeks of her death. John is not mentioned as being in Pat's immediate family. I haven't checked the Aldridge family tree to see how or even whether Ruairi exists and what info is given about his mother.
There was a time when the Grundys weren't even silents. Do you mean they didn't exist?
Well that was so long ago it's not really pertinent to what we're discussing now. As of course since then they've been introduced.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 7
Posted by Reggie Trentham (U2746099) on Thursday, 1st December 2011
Do you mean they didn't exist? Â
Well obviously they existed, but listeners weren't aware that they did. I think they probably first got a mention in the late sixties or early seventies when they replaced Walter Gabriel as the 'bad' farmers in Ambridge. At a guess Eddie first appeared as a speaker about 35 years ago and Joe somewhat later. Not sure about Clarrie but she was originally a Larkin anyway. I'm sure there are people who can give you more accurate dates.
It looks possible that the Horrobins may be establishing themselves as a speaking family as opposed to a bunch of silents, apart from Susan and Clive intermittently.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 8
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Thursday, 1st December 2011
Sorry but I'm giving up on this conversation which you seem determined to drag back to the dark ages which aren't relevant. i'm talking about now and the days of internet and an Archers' site.
If I was doing it - and yes I do quite a lot of stuff on different sites and so on - I think I'd find a way to select who should be mentioned in the who's whop - for example immediate family of still living characters including their dead wives, sons and so on.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 9
Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Friday, 2nd December 2011
If the script is going to include characters from the past/formerly silent then Who's who should be updated to include them.
Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 10
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Friday, 2nd December 2011
>>>Keri Davies gave me some snotty reply at the time.<<<
As I recall it Keri's reply wasn't snotty but made the entirely reasonable point that it simply involved too much work to include biogs of deceased characters,Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 11
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 2nd December 2011
As I recall it Keri's reply wasn't snotty but made the entirely reasonable point that it simply involved too much work to include biogs of deceased characters,Â
It needs no work to leave in existing biogs of people who die.
And I expect some here would volunteer to do older ones.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 12
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Friday, 2nd December 2011
Hi all
The Timeline is searchable - so you can search for John Archer or Sharon Richards, for example, and pull up back stories there.
I'll pass on your comments, but it does come down to time and resources to keep the Who's Who up to date.
TaylerLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 13
Posted by rick_yard_withdrawn (U14573092) on Saturday, 3rd December 2011
I can see the reason why they might be reluctant to include biographies of characters who no longer appear in the programme. How do you do it? Do you write biogs of characters whose names might be mentioned? How do you know who they are going to be? Do you write a biog only when a defunct character gets a mention? Whatever way you do it it's going to use resources that could be used elsewhere.
I rarely look at other parts of the website than the messageboard but I have feeling that bits of back story sometimes used to appear somewhere when old stories resurfaced. Does this still happen?
What about the timeline? Never really looked at it but doesn't that cover past events and characters?. Although I suppose you'd have to know what and when you were looking for. Am "Ambridge past" section? This could include memorables like the Tregorrans and the Gabriels, for instance, who would still loom large in the memories - and I'm sure conversations - of many Ambridgeites....Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 14
Posted by Arcadena (U15071330) on Thursday, 5th January 2012
This is a longstanding bugbear of mine. There are quite often story lines which hinge around what happened in the past. And yet it is impossible for the new listener to find out who these people are.
Why can't who's who have entries for John Archer, Sharon Richards etc?
Why did Betty Tucker have to be removed so that when Mike started with Vicky new listeners were having to ask who she was and what had happened to her?
Keri Davies gave me some snotty reply at the time.
Can new readers find out who Ruairi's mother is?
It's just ridiculous not to have this information (and counter-productive if the idea is to attract new listeners). Â Excellent question. I've just posted elsewhere on the poor state of the Who's Who and its "patriarch Reg" of the Horrobins. All it needs is a day's work to align it with the Family Tree and the Timeline. I'd get the sack if I did such sloppy work.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 15
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Friday, 13th January 2012
I suggested (possibly on N and Q) that the old biographies could be linked to the Family Tree and to the Time line and anywhere else their names are mentioned. All it needs is to replace a name with an html string. They have done this with Sid on the family tree - but the deaths of some of the other characters are not even indicated. For some - clicking on them leads to errors .. and Henry is (or was) not even on the tree!
Tayler did say she would mention this to whoever is responsible for the site
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 16
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Friday, 13th January 2012
I notice that the Family Tree is currently not available - so maybe it is being updated ..??
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 17
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Friday, 13th January 2012
Hi JPBS
I think there's some technical glitch with the family tree at the moment that's being looked in to. Keri's also told me he's working on updates to the Who's Who etc : )
TaylerLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 18
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 13th January 2012
Keri's also told me he's working on updates to the Who's Who etc : )Â
That's worrying.
Why is he not busy with making AmEx permanent?
Do we know WHEN there will be news?Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 19
Posted by fondantfancee (U14086841) on Saturday, 21st January 2012
>>>Keri Davies gave me some snotty reply at the time.<<<
As I recall it Keri's reply wasn't snotty but made the entirely reasonable point that it simply involved too much work to include biogs of deceased characters,Â
One could respectfully suggest that the time taken by Keri and Taylor to compose the blogs could more usefully be used to update a facility that listeners actually use.
The blogs are white elephants, clearly just intended to tick some box.
The extensive summaries on the blog by Taylor of MB and twitter conversations are out of date the moment they're composed and must take many hours to put together.
The number of replies are at a pathetic level - ditto the 'interesting' extra information that again take time and money.
Nobody but a body who receives a guaranteed income from the public could afford this; if a site is not frequented it gets chopped in the real world.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 20
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Saturday, 21st January 2012
One could respectfully suggest that the time taken by Keri and Taylor to compose the blogs could more usefully be used to update a facility that listeners actually use.Â
But mini-biographies already exist - and work is done to remove them from the character list. The Family trees are similarly updated (or not).
Why not add the date of death to the mini-biog and retain the links .. Look at Sid Perks on his family tree for a good example
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 21
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
I would think the workload isssue is more to do with the hundreds of of characters from the past compared to the 70 or so current characters (just consider the number of entries in The Archers Encyclopedia).
Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 22
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
I would think the workload isssue is more to do with the hundreds of of characters from the past compared to the 70 or so current characters (just consider the number of entries in The Archers Encyclopedia). I suggested they just have characters with existing biogs - ie the characters on Family Trees. That would be something!
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 23
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
Yes, but that isn't what the OP was suggesting (e.g. mention of John Archer who died before the website existed).
Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 24
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
Yes, but that isn't what the OP was suggesting (e.g. mention of John Archer who died before the website existed).Â
What I said: "There are quite often story lines which hinge around what happened in the past. And yet it is impossible for the new listener to find out who these people are."
So rather obviously I am not suggesting that all characters who've ever been in the Archers are on the website, only people whose existence is rather relevant to current story lines, or members of the core families. It's not, after all, as if it it is going to require new original research but reusing existing who's who entries with a date of death.
(And as for whether Keri's original answer to me was snotty it certainly produced the reaction from another poster to me "well that's you told then".)Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 25
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
(And as for whether Keri's original answer to me was snotty it certainly produced the reaction from another poster to me "well that's you told then".)Â
And at the time my query was in relation to Betty Tucker who was whisked off the site within three weeks of her death.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 26
Posted by fondantfancee (U14086841) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
Keri's replies could be - and still are - what I would politely call terse if disagreeing with him.
His responses on the blogs to the ridiculous SATTC reflected this.
I don't use the biographies but think it's quite reasonable to update them if a past character is brought back - like Sharon.
It's really not much to ask.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 27
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 22nd January 2012
Yes, but that isn't what the OP was suggesting (e.g. mention of John Archer who died before the website existed). But there will not be many characters like that. There is enough information on John to make a short Biog - on the pages they point us to.
So far as I know we haven't heard yet from Tayler or Keri.
They've done it for Sid Perks .. why not other characters?
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 28
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Monday, 23rd January 2012
It would be a much better use of any available time to correct errors and bring the biogs up to date for existing characters rather than start putting biogs up for any dead character who just happens to be mentioned (IMHO).
Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 29
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Monday, 23rd January 2012
PS,
If people really feel the need to do this then why not offer to enter the data yourself, It could then be put up on the website in the same way as the MB FAQ was? The only source materials required would be copies of TBOTA and TAE (I am suggesting that copy these works verbatim would not be appropriate). If the material were posted first in draft form I (for one) would be happy to suggest drafting corrections/ improvements.Link to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 30
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 23rd January 2012
But the biogs are already there! Just need links putting in. The family trees need updating and correcting after all. Why not put in links at the same time ..?
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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Message 31
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 23rd January 2012
PS,
If people really feel the need to do this then why not offer to enter the data yourself, It could then be put up on the website in the same way as the MB FAQ was? The only source materials required would be copies of TBOTA and TAE (I am suggesting that copy these works verbatim would not be appropriate). If the material were posted first in draft form I (for one) would be happy to suggest drafting corrections/ improvements. OK - I think most are already there ...
Dan and Doris Archers wont be though - I'll do theirs first .. I don't guarantee they will be interesting.
Just the facts ma..a..n just the facts ..
JPBSLink to this forum: Why can't who's who include former characters?
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