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Posted by antiquelemonsqeeze1 (U14259306) on Wednesday, 11th April 2012
Jake and Mia are now recorded as Grundys. Do we know at what point their real father Andrew, who was still in contact (as was his mother), agreed to this, as would be necessary, or are he and the poor grandmother just going to be airbrushed out of existence?
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
Jake and Mia never had Andrew's surname. They were Jake and Mia Hansen, mother Nicola Hansen.
The change is not yet legal, they are merely "known as" Grundy.
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
What is the legal position if someone is surnamed Hansen because that is the surname of his or her mother, never having used his or her father's name, and his or her mother then marries and takes a new surname? Are they obliged to remain Hansen when their mother becomes Grundy, and if so, why?
I think that changing surname involved less trouble than changing a forename did; I have now done both.
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
The children would have to have the name legally ratified, or whatever it is called, but would appear on the school register as "known as Grundy."
Child of a mate was in this situation. Then she and partner adopted the child, and he was then legally able to change his name, the whatdyoucallit teacher (tutor group teacher, maybe?) wrote in his homework diary, "Adam Macy is no longer to be known as Adam Archer."++
++ Name changed to protect Ruairi
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
Makes a certain amount of sense, I suppose. I am unsure how much; I suspect that would vary from case to case.
But since we are wondering about it, I don't suppose you know what happens about a child whose father (to whom his mother was not married, and who is therefore not named on his birth certificate) died before his birth, after his mother marries and changes her surnmname? Is he compelled to remain "John Richards", or is he allowed to become "John Phillips" when she becomes "Sharon Phillips"? Quite seriously: name-changes cost money; I don't really see why Sharon should have to pay out for Rich to change from her surname to her surname. Seems a bit daft really.
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Chris, you mean that Chris Ghoti was not your original/birth name ????
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No more than I imagine Buntysdaughter was yours! (grin)
But neither my forename nor my surname is now what it started out as. If you'd had what I was lumbered with at the start you too would have Taken Steps about it.
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, in reply to message 5.
Posted by antiquelemonsqeeze1 (U14259306) on Friday, 13th April 2012
Makes a certain amount of sense, I suppose. I am unsure how much; I suspect that would vary from case to case.
But since we are wondering about it, I don't suppose you know what happens about a child whose father (to whom his mother was not married, and who is therefore not named on his birth certificate) died before his birth, after his mother marries and changes her surnmname? Is he compelled to remain "John Richards", or is he allowed to become "John Phillips" when she becomes "Sharon Phillips"? Quite seriously: name-changes cost money; I don't really see why Sharon should have to pay out for Rich to change from her surname to her surname. Seems a bit daft really.Â
chris the words you have put in brackets including 'therefore' and subsequent, do not necessarily follow. Jake and Mia's father has clearly had recognition and contact rights established over a number of years and is probably on their birth certificates - it's just a little 'tidy'and convenient for the newly-wed love-birds that the children can be converted to Grundys so airily.
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, in reply to message 6.
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 13th April 2012
In reply to Buntysdaughter:
Chris, you mean that Chris Ghoti was not your original/birth name ????Â
I always thought there was something fishy about that name.
Schools will accept whatever parents/carers tell them, and there is no requirement to do anything formal.
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
antiquelemonsqueezer, I think you have misunderstood my post. I was asking specifically about a case in which the name of the father *cannot* be on the child's birth certificate. The bit in the brackets is the bit that makes a difference: a dead father cannnot be put onto the certificate because he cannot give his consent. Consent has to be given by the father for his inclusion; marriage is taken as consent. (Otherwise Elvis would have been on a lot of babies birth certificates, no doubt.)
Nothing to do with Jake and Mia, whose living father may be assumed to be on their birth certificates. I was asking about a different case altogether.
John Archer, having been dead at the time of Rich's birth, cannot be on Rich's birth certificate. I want to know whether Rich is therefore obliged to be "John Richards", his mother's maiden name, if she married Eamon Phillips after Rich's birth rather than before it. If she was married to Eamon Phillips at the time of the birth then the baby could be registered as "John Phillips" as a matter of course, but unless they claimed Eamon was the father, would he have to adopt Rich to give him the surname or could Rich use his mother's surname legitimately when she married, if he had been registered under her unmarried name?
I would add that no school ever asked for proof in the form of a birth certificate from me: they took my word for it about the names of my children.
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
and is probably on their birth certificates But their surname has always been Hansen, and there is /no/ reason to suppose Andrew had his name on the birth certificates.
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
would he have to adopt Rich to give him the surname or could Rich use his mother's surname legitimately when she married, I should think, from limited experience of aforementioned friend, that the mother marrying has no effect on the child's name status, and it would have (as in their case) to be a case of legal adoption to take the name of the next father.
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If Andrew Wossis was known to be the father and going to be approached for maintenance, which he was, the chances are that he would have been put onto the birth certificates, because there is pressure for that to be done. "unknown" for the father is not as acceptable as a name would be.
Since Nic and Andrew were living as a couple, why would his name *not* have been put onto the birth certificates of children whose paternity was not being disputed?
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
why would his name *not* have been put onto the birth certificates of children whose paternity was not being disputed?Â
Don't know.
But if it WAS put on the bc, why did he not also give them his surname?
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
, in reply to message 14.
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Friday, 13th April 2012
We don't know what Andrew's surname is.. it might be Shufflebottom or Fuchs or Gay or something equally likely to make the owner's life a misery at school.
Names are odd things - as long as you aren't attempting to defraud you can call yourself anything and it is legal. But if you want documents changed you have to provide evidence of name change and that can but doesn't have tobe deed poll.
Personally I wouldn't swap Hansen for Grundy.
Link to this forum: Nic and Will have been married a little more than three months but already
Surname is entirely at the discretion of the parents. If the woman of an unmarried couple was going to be the one being their parent for school purposes, them sharing her surname is quite a common thing during this century -- they were both born since the year 2000.
Since he didn't marry Nic and give his surname to her (what a strange phrase that is, when I look at it!) why would he give his surname to her children? Or why would *she* give his surname to her children?
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, in reply to message 10.
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Friday, 13th April 2012
I think because John, being dead, never had parental rights over Rich and therefore Sharon could change his name on her own say so.
Andrew's situation is more muddied since I at least got the impression that he and Nic were a couple who just happened not to be married rather than a more casual arrangement (Nic used to go to bingo with his mother etc). It would be odd if he didn't have parental rights if they had been living together as a family and he does appear to be the father of both the children which suggests a fairly longterm arrangement.
If he does have parental rights his consent would be needed to change the children's names legally.
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In my experience, the children of unmarried couples *usually* take the father's surname. Not sure why, but there you go.
There is the possibility that Andrew is also 'Hansen' - remote, I admit, but it is possible!
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, in reply to message 18.
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Friday, 13th April 2012
Not impossible but less likely with a les usual surname liek Hansen. There was someone in the local paper this week who had been born Davies and married Davies,....
I know of a couple who were unmarried and had boy twins and each got one of their surnames. I suppose it is a bit odd for full blood siblings to have different surnames but perhaps not a bad thing to treat twins as individuals.
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that's... an unusual approach! Bound to cause tons of awkward questions, I would have thought - especially for the children. Actually, the more I think about it, the more unfair on the children it seems. Just imagine the questions they are going to get asked by other children.
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There was someone in the local paper this week who had been born Davies and married Davies,....Â
According to QI, President F D Roosevelt's wife's maiden name was Roosevelt.
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They were cousins, but it was quite remote
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, in reply to message 20.
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Friday, 13th April 2012
Oh I don't know Why have you got a different surname to your brother? He has our mum's I have our dad's ,.. not that hard to grasp? And this particular set up it is possibly the least odd thing about the domestic arrangements.I mean the Grundy kids all have the same name and I bet there are more awkward quastions there!!!!
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