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Milk price anger
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Message 1.Â
Posted by pigsrlovely (U14715579) on Friday, 6th July 2012
Why no mention of the anger and frustration felt by dairy farmers at the moment.
Many dairy farmers are experiencing a loss on milk production - the price received for milk being less than it costs to produce.
This would surely be mentioned by at least one of the dairy farmers in Ambridge. -
Message 2
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 6th July 2012
HAS been mentioned re Brian/Home Farm.
Ed & BriF - not selling into the mass milk market
BroF - Minds elsewhere. -
Message 3
Posted by pigsrlovely (U14715579) on Friday, 6th July 2012
I think its weird that Brian was congratulating himself in tonight's episode when the milk producers are full of gloom and despondency. Surely the drop in milk price to the producers would have a massive impact on his scheme.
Regarding Ed and Bridge Farm - agree it doesnt directly affect their pockets, but I am sure the depressed farming fraternity would impact on them in some way. Cows are a 'silly' price at the moment and its not exactly clear how they replace or market their stock.
Brookfield - the storyline at the moment is one thing, but not so long ago Ruth was crying over one of her bills. Surely, they would be affected.
I just think that its a big (major) farming issue at the moment. Milk farmers - I feel - will be pushed into some kind of action that will impact the general public. I dont know, have no basis or inside knowledge - I just cant see how you can keep squeezing people without them popping. This last price decrease seems a step too far, is not fair, and certainly should not go without comment on a long running farming drama - imo. -
Message 4
Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Friday, 6th July 2012
< his last price decrease seems a step too far, is not fair, and certainly should not go without comment on a long running farming drama - imo. >
Perhaps TA editorial team could employ the services of an agribusiness expert to help with farming stories, current trends on a consultancy basis? Heck, they could even advertise the role as 'Agricultural Story Editor' and pay the successful candidate a good salary for the very part-time role.
Anyone else agree? -
Message 5
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 6th July 2012
I think its weird that Brian was congratulating himself in tonight's episode when the milk producers are full of gloom and despondency. Surely the drop in milk price to the producers would have a massive impact on his scheme.Â
Not at all. The scheme will be a lowest marginal cost producer, so always profitable, and will do better once marginal producers withdraw.
Milk farmers - I feel - will be pushed into some kind of action that will impact the general publicÂ
The less efficient ones will withdraw.
Unlikely ever to have muchg effect on the public as milk is a clear loss leader if supermarkets want to draw customers.
Our local veg shop advertises "Cheapest milk in the village" -
Message 6
Posted by pigsrlovely (U14715579) on Friday, 6th July 2012
Why hit milk - supermarket loss leader.
Bread is over £1 a loaf - you can get 4 pts of milk for the same price. I would imagine bread would be just as popular as a supermarket loss leader if those responsible were to consider it.
Its not uncommon to target an industry - squeeze it dry (ooh did I really type that)
Milk is ..... what we start life on. I know we can import it cheaply but its a shame we have come to this way of thinking. -
Message 7
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
In reply to pigsrlovely:
Why hit milk - supermarket loss leader.
Bread is over £1 a loaf -Â
Are you a senior politician?
There is lots of bread under £1 and Asda Tesco and Sbry all do a 800g loaf for 47p. -
Message 8
Posted by Seveek (U13636812) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
Here’s an interesting paradox.
Dairy farmers are said to be in despair and losing vast amounts of money. The press believes it and consequently the public do.
But there is no substantial analysis of the type or size of herds or whether they are at grass, composite, high yield systems, spring or autumn block or all year calving. This is important for comparison as they each have different costs and outputs.
So the small farm with 100 cows, renting the land at £70-100 an acre and with no investment in modern technology is grouped with the larger farm with 200 cows, no rent or mortgage to pay because he is a second or third generation farmer, modern equipment and spare land to grow his own forage. It is chalk and cheese; the former are disappearing.
Mr Detlef Schon, CEO at Aquila Capital Green Assets, agrees. He was recently asked what the future held for small-scale British dairy farmers.
"None," he replied. "If you want to preserve a structure in a small, family farm-type structure in the UK, and there's good reasons for wanting to do that, then it requires public support.
"Assuming public support is on its way out, then by the same token, your 50 to 100 cow family farm is on its way out."
Whilst the herd numbers are predicted to reduce to below 10,000 by 2020 the number of cows un the UK will remain the same and UK output will increase by 1.7 billion litres PA.
So, here’s the paradox.
Doom merchants abound and point to the reducing number of farmers but do not advise that UK annual yield is increasing as the remainder get larger. The buyers at this sale hardly seem pessimistic.
‘A herd of pedigree Holsteins was dispersed on Tuesday. Almost 300 were sold with a large crowd and many eager buyers.
Trade peaked at 14,500gns for Holmland Goldwyn Adeen.
At 11,000gns was Holmland Goldwyn Rose.
Averages:
129 cows, £2,904.59; 52 heifer calves, £1825.38; 77 maiden heifers, £2,333.65; overall, £2,418.69.’
And that is not isolated:
‘At Llandovery market’s monthly suckler cow and calf and store cattle sale the centre record was broken for a commercial cow and calf. Top call of £5,000 was for a Charolais cross British Blue first calver with her eight- week-old Limousin cross bull calf. Mr Lewis sold six first calf cows and calves to average £2,920. In all there was a 100 per cent clearance rate for the quality show forward.’
So a farmer in Wales is so ‘worried, fearful, angry, agitated and disgusted’ that he spends £5000 on a cow and another is in total despair so he willing pays 14,500gns.
It doesn’t make sense that they would buy at those prices to lose money unless they are taking illusionary drugs. -
Message 9
Posted by Reggie Trentham (U2746099) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
There was another reference to milk prices in the same recent episode that Brian was defending the mega dairy to the other board member, on the same day that Wisemans announced its price decrease.
As far as farmers taking action there was a bit on television, I think in the London local news on Friday, about them going on strike and refusing to supply milk during the Olympics. I don't know how serious it is, but I doubt somehow that it will come to anything. -
Message 10
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
There was another reference to milk prices in the same recent episode that Brian was defending the mega dairy to the other board member, on the same day that Wisemans announced its price decrease.Â
Yes. There was discussion here whether it was a topical insert or a lucky coincidence.
As far as farmers taking action there was a bit on television, I think in the London local news on Friday, about them going on strike and refusing to supply milk during the Olympics. I don't know how serious it is, but I doubt somehow that it will come to anything.Â
agreed. Splendid idea though. -
Message 11
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
Errr .... the Charolais cross British Blue cow is a a beef suckler cow, and would never ever be milked - at that money she is being bought to breed fatstock show winners.
The Holmland Holstein herd seems to have met an excellent trade, but has largely been established with imported North American embryos , thus it was an elite genetic herd.
Sometimes the top prices are not quite what they seem.
For example you find a cow makes 10,000 and it turns out only two of her legs have been sold.
By which I mean the owners( sellers) retain a half share , and only 5,000 changes hands.
The 14,500 cow might already have contracts for embryos to fulfilll, so some hope of a return , even if she never milked again. -
Message 12
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
The problem with Seveek`s reasoning " that the 200 cow established farm has no rent or mortgage to pay" doesn`t quite work out like that.
The 200 cow herd was probably 120 cows in 1984 when it was allocated a quota based on 1983 production MINUS 9%.
So they either had to get rid of that number of cows or reduce yields. Some years later milk prices fell further and genetics improved , so to make any progress producers who wanted to stay in milk had to buy quota .( To add extra cows to be more efficient , and as yields increased due to better genetics and better feed systems)
This became very expensive ( 60-80p a litre at peak) and you had to borrrow the money to do it.
Or you had to lease in quota which could cost anything from 5-15 ppl , which removed any hope of profit but avoided a 25 p EU penalty for over quota production.
Tennants were unwilling to buy quota because it attached to land - and thus became their landlords property.
In these ways established dairy farms incurred borrowings, due to low profitability. -
Message 13
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
The problem with Seveek`s reasoning " that the 200 cow established farm has no rent or mortgage to pay" doesn`t quite work out like that.
The 200 cow herd was probably 120 cows in 1984 when it was allocated a quota based on 1983 production MINUS 9%.
So they either had to get rid of that number of cows or reduce yields. Some years later milk prices fell further and genetics improved , so to make any progress producers who wanted to stay in milk had to buy quota .( To add extra cows to be more efficient , and as yields increased due to better genetics and better feed systems)
This became very expensive ( 60-80p a litre at peak) and you had to borrrow the money to do it.
Or you had to lease in quota which could cost anything from 5-15 ppl , which removed any hope of profit but avoided a 25 p EU penalty for over quota production.
Tennants were unwilling to buy quota because it attached to land - and thus became their landlords property.
In these ways established dairy farms incurred borrowings, due to low profitability.Â
And people wonder why I support UKIP.
Let the farmers keep whatever livestock they like and sell milk how they like subject to normal anti-monopoly/monopsony provisions. -
Message 14
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Tuesday, 10th July 2012
Yes. There was discussion here whether it was a topical insert or a lucky coincidence.Â
This was a coincidence. There was a topical insert on Sunday when David mentioned the NFU Dairy Summit (happening tomorrow
Tayler -
Message 15
Posted by Midwesterner in the Midlands (U3372123) on Monday, 23rd July 2012
and... ? Quite a lot happened at the summit re: milk prices. Will it be showing up on TA?
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Message 16
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Thursday, 26th July 2012
I don`t think farmers and dairying in particular have had this much media exposure since FMD, so it must be a problem for the scriptwriters to reflect this , when they can`t afford to do any more topical inserts.
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Message 17
Posted by auldhairy (U14258268) on Monday, 3rd September 2012
This could be good news.
Dairy farmers and processors agree code of practice.
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Message 18
Posted by auldhairy (U14258268) on Monday, 3rd September 2012
Bump.
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Message 19
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Sunday, 16th September 2012
Wiseman`s announced that they are to raise farmer milk prices by 2.65 ppl.They couldn`t help themselves from highlighting that it was the biggest rise ever implemented.
That would be the biggest rise
after the nearly biggest fall in June of 2.0 ppl.
So the rise is actually plus 0.65 ppl from what producers were getting in late 2011.Or about 2.33%.
So not quite that impressive in the light of record rises in feed costs. -
Message 20
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Sunday, 16th September 2012
And of course there is the small matter of four and a half months milk at minus 2 ppl to be funded by the producer.
Which if my mental arithmetic still works is equivalent to a reduction of 0.75 ppl over 12 months , so the net increase of 0.65 ppl will require about 15 months to balance out.
No wonder farmers get a reputation for moaning! -
Message 21
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Sunday, 16th September 2012
Duh! Just checked and the increase is only 2.57 ppl, So make that a net rise of 2% only.
Meanwhile milk is so scarce due to the weather conditions that the spot market is trading ( limited quantities of course) at 37 -39 ppl.
Wiseman`s price will move to 29 ppl. When they get around to it , that is. 15th October to be precise. -
Message 22
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 16th September 2012
Meanwhile milk is so scarce due to the weather conditions that the spot market is trading ( limited quantities of course) at 37 -39 ppl.
Wiseman`s price will move to 29 ppl. When they get around to it , that is. 15th October to be precise.Â
So are you selling some into spot? -
Message 23
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Monday, 17th September 2012
No an individual producer can`t do that without resigning their contract, with their existing buyer.
The spot market exists in " 2nd hand milk". -
Message 24
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Monday, 17th September 2012
That seems to me an improper restraint on trade, which you should take to the OFT.
Though farmers would expect it to apply only when in their favour?
Is there a forward market in milk? -
Message 25
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Monday, 17th September 2012
I notice that Tesco dropped the price of their "Pure" filtered milk dramatically recently - three 2l cartons for £3 last time I shopped - when Cravendale were still selling the same product for nearly £2 for a single 2l. So, either they're short-changing the farmers, have found a much cheaper method of processing it, or they're selling at a loss.
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Message 26
Posted by auldhairy (U14258268) on Monday, 17th September 2012
Mottisons, the supermarket we use sells Cravendale, I don't know the price, but we only by milk from the West Gountry to support our local farmers.
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Message 27
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Monday, 17th September 2012
The problem is that I only use a splash of milk in my coffee every morning, so the filtered stuff (e.g. Cravendale) is the only milk that doesn't go off before the carton runs out.
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Message 28
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Monday, 17th September 2012
Peet have you tried just 1pt? Though might cost as much.
Or freezing milk in small units? -
Message 29
Posted by Spartacus (U38364) on Monday, 17th September 2012
I buy the "three 2l cartons for £3" and freeze two of them. I find that works out to be quite economical.
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Message 30
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Thursday, 20th September 2012
Moderately ggod news today - First Milk ( our producer co-op) will lift price by 1ppl on 1st October and a further 1.6 ppl on 1st Nov.
That equates to a price 0.75 ppl above what we were getting in May.
So it will only take about 12 months to pay off the June to October cut!! ( it was minus 1.85 ppl)
Pity dairy cake is up 20% in the mean time, so we will still be losing money until there is a further rise. -
Message 31
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 21st September 2012
Pity dairy cake is up 20% in the mean time, so we will still be losing money until there is a further rise.Â
Qu'ils mangant du pain?
More seriously should you not follow the wisdom of Brookfield? Or feed spent malt? -
Message 32
Posted by ayrshire-cowman (U2259898) on Friday, 21st September 2012
What wisdom?
I`m sorry but I don`t understand the point you are making. We have hardly been able to graze our cows this summer at all.
The silage we have made is rubbish, and we still havn`t got any second cut yet.
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