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Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 31st August 2012
Tayler - Lest you missed the discussion on "Mike's lovely" it is asked why when Mike asks the consultant what percentage of parents with a Downs amnio result go for abortion the answer is
"I'm afraid I don't have accurate data"
It is clear from wiki that a sufficiently accurate answer is "about 9 out of 10" - and inconceivable that a consultant did not know that.
Why is the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú not giving accurate information?
Wiki
Abortion rates
A 2002 literature review of elective abortion rates found that 91–93% of pregnancies in the United Kingdom and Europe with a diagnosis of Down syndrome were terminated.[73] Data from the National Down Syndrome Cytogenetic Register in the United Kingdom indicates that from 1989 to 2006 the proportion of women choosing to terminate a pregnancy following prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome has remained constant at around 92%.[74][75]
In the United States a number of studies have examined the abortion rate of fetuses with Down syndrome. Three studies estimated the termination rates at 95%, 98%, and 87% respectively.[73]
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Of course he'd know. But if you're giving parents the kind of news he was giving Vicky and Mike would you sit there and tell them the bare statistics or would you fudge the question at that point and say you didn't have the data, treating them gently and giving them time to get used to the situation before discussing the options at a later date?
I think any consultant with a modicum of empathy or human feeling would do the latter.
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, in reply to message 2.
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 31st August 2012
So when he said "I will answer any questions" he did not mean he would do so honestly and to the best of his knowledge?
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Apparently not, and quite rightly imo. I think that doctors do that all the time. Why should they be required to tell a patient the absolute truth when it isn't in the patient's best interest at that point? I don't think he was being dishonest anyway.
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, in reply to message 4.
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 31st August 2012
Why should they be required to tell a patient the absolute truth when it isn't in the patient's best interest at that point?Â
Who are they to judge that on a matter of factual information?
I don't think he was being dishonest anyway.Â
It is dishonest to say you don't know something you do know.
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I'm not trying to say whether he was right or wrong, just that, given my knowledge of medical ethics (limited) and human behaviour the way he handled it was well within the bounds of believability.
Okay, and the way I would like a doctor to handle if I were in that situation.
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Just popping into say that the consultant was quite right. He was using subtle* behavioural psychology. I'm sure he knew the rough figures but he probably didn't have the accurate figures to hand and so he didn't lie to M&V.
It's well known that telling people that 'most people do x' when they're considering whether to do x or y influences a lot of people to do x rather than y. Government is now well into this with the nudge theory and all that and it does actually work.
So the consultant refused to be drawn into that because he was making it very clear that the decision had to be a personal decision for M&V. The fact that Mike asked about it indicated that he would probably have been influenced by the norm and failed to address the real issues.
*subtle for this MB anyway
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So the consultant refused to be drawn into that because he was making it very clear that the decision had to be a personal decision for M&V.Â
Yes; if he'd said something like "It has to be a personal decision for you both - every case is unique" and drawn them into a discussion about what support they might be able to access and what they might do to be able to get more information, like local organisations and reputable websites, it would have acheived a better result without the consultant lying or appearing as if he didn't have the information which one would expect.
A friend is the head of paediatrics at a major hospital - it's a situation they would be all to familiar with - I'll ask them the range of things the consultants would do in RL.
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, in reply to message 8.
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Wednesday, 5th September 2012
Hi all
Keri got back to me on this one - he was the scriptwriter for this episode - and said:
The script was seen by a consultant who works in this role. He was clear that a figure like this would not have been mentioned in the conversation. Â
Tayler
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Hi Tayler
Nice to know that Keri got back on this one. Can you please remind him we're still waiting for an answer to those pesky questions his answer to the SA camping holiday raised on the other thread?
Thanks!
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, in reply to message 10.
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 6th September 2012
And perhaps explain whether a motorcycle caused Freddie's fall when there was no sound.
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, in reply to message 11.
Posted by Elnora Cornstalk (U5646495) on Thursday, 6th September 2012
It's just that the sound travelled in our direction very slowly, O I; but it reached the podcast within a couple of days.
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, in reply to message 12.
Posted by Buntysdaughter (U7084475) on Thursday, 6th September 2012
Snork, elnora !
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, in reply to message 12.
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 6th September 2012
It's just that the sound travelled in our direction very slowly, O I; but it reached the podcast within a couple of days.Â
Are you saying there IS a motorcycle noise on the podcast?
What day was it?
Physics is different in Borsetshire - recall the very low "g" when Nigel slowly fell.
Link to this forum: Percentage of Down's pregnancies aborted
, in reply to message 14.
Posted by Elnora Cornstalk (U5646495) on Friday, 7th September 2012
Hello, O I. Yes, they added it! I snaffled the podcast the following day, without it, but Mustafa brought us this public service announcement:
'Re-Recorded with added SFX!!'
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