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Are Ed and Vicky business partners?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by chaucergirl (U515741) on Wednesday, 9th January 2013
Could someone please help me with understanding Ed’s business?
Didn't Vicky put up the money to buy 15 (25?) cows to extend the herd - does she still own these and does Ed lease them from her, or has he bought them from her, or is she actually his business partner? -
Message 2
Posted by Poster Formerly Known As (U14270464) on Wednesday, 9th January 2013
I think this is a very good question. Anybody remember what the set up is? I remember Vicky putting in money to increase the herd. Do Mike and Ed jointly own the herd, with Mike's half partly paid for by Vicky? If Ed goes under, what happens to Mike's milk round? For Mike to just ignore the ramifications of his actions in paying Ed less for the milk shows just as bad business sense as Ed's lack of bookkeeping.
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Message 3
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Thursday, 10th January 2013
Hi both,
Vicky's money bough the cows but Mike leases them to Ed.
Tayler -
Message 4
Posted by chaucergirl (U515741) on Thursday, 10th January 2013
Thank you for finding that out, Tayler.
Don't suppose we know how the the lease is run - any chance of Ed simply cancelling it and handing the additional cows back - that would make it fun!
Or, as Mike has cut the price he pays Ed for the milk, why can't Ed then cut the price he pays Mike to lease the cows?
Maybe Ruth will think of this and suggest it to him? -
Message 5
Posted by JustJanie - Fairweather Strider (U10822512) on Thursday, 10th January 2013
<< Or, as Mike has cut the price he pays Ed for the milk, why can't Ed then cut the price he pays Mike to lease the cows? >>
Ooh, I like that idea! He could do Mike's 'sorry, mate, no choice' spiel right back at him. -
Message 6
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 10th January 2013
Vicky's money bought the cows but Mike leases them to Ed.
°Õ²¹²â±ô±ð°ùÌý
So are you saying that Vicky lent the money to Mike who bought and owns the cows which he leases to Ed?
Is the loan interest bearing?
What is the basis of the lease?
What happens if a cow dies or incurs vet's fees? -
Message 7
Posted by Tayler Cresswell - Host (U14232848) on Friday, 11th January 2013
Hi OI
I don't think these details were aired.
Tayler -
Message 8
Posted by chaucergirl (U515741) on Friday, 11th January 2013
"Is the loan interest bearing?"
Apart from Mike signing the rest of his life over to Vicky, no.
"What is the basis of the lease?"
You have these cows, Ed, for a set fee, and I'll give you whatever I fancy offering you for the milk.
"What happens if a cow dies or incurs vet's fees?"
Mike: Ed'll replace them / Cover the fees
Ed: Oh, ummm... -
Message 9
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
>What happens if a cow dies or incurs vet's fees?<
I don't know about vet's fees but iirc the attraction of the arrangement to Ed is that if a cow dies Mike has to replace it. I can't remember if this was said on air or if it was in a blog that Keri did at the time. -
Message 10
Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
Ed needs to u ilaterally reduce the amount he leases the cows from Mike for.
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Message 11
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
So that Mike can sue him for breach of contract? How would that help Ed, exactly?
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Message 12
Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
Mike really tied Ed up in a sack didn't he, if he can lower the price he pays for the milk without negotiation but Ed can't lower the price of the cows.
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Message 13
Posted by JustJanie - Fairweather Strider (U10822512) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
<< Mike really tied Ed up in a sack didn't he, if he can lower the price he pays for the milk without negotiation but Ed can't lower the price of the cows. >>
Ed wasn't very happy about the contract way back at the beginning but signed it anyway. As cath says, he was naive. Don't know why someone else (Oliver for instance) didn't look it over for him but that's another story.
Ed's biggest negotiating point is - in my opinion - 'I can't go on like this if I can't make a living out of it. And if you lose me as a supplier who knows if you can find another one. And if you do, they might want even more money than I'm asking. Surely it's best if we compromise and you pay me a bit more.'
Perhaps Neil will help him get that point across. I agree with those who said Ed's timing was not great. While it's true things could get even more hectic for Mike after the baby is born, the fact is he is in such a state of anxiety right now that he can't put his mind to his and Ed's business. So he goes with his first instinct which is to bully Ed and shout him down. It's worked up to now but Ed IS learning.
I've been rather scathing about Ruth's advice in that she just said 'get a better price' and left Ed to jump in the deep end of negotiating but at least she put the idea in his head that this is something that needs to be done. And in fairness to Ruth (much as it pains me) it's not her job to run his business for him.
I hope Ed finds a way out because I'd like to see him learn and succeed. And I'd like to see Mike back down because he's a bully. -
Message 14
Posted by JustJanie - Fairweather Strider (U10822512) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
Coo, I just realised I'm in Notes and Queries. Sorry for long-winded post that didn't answer any questions!
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Message 15
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
>Mike really tied Ed up in a sack didn't he, if he can lower the price he pays for the milk without negotiation but Ed can't lower the price of the cows.<
Well I assume Ed could have refused to sell his milk at the reduced price after a certain amount of time if he gave notice. But I don't think it's reasonable to blame Mike for doing what anyone would do in business, which is to get the best deal for yourself. It's not his fault that Ed has been so naive and failed to negotiate at any time in the past.
Ed accepted the initial terms of the contract, he accepted the leasing agreement, he's accepted anything that came his way. He needed independent advice but he didn't realise it. I think that's part of his nature, he's always been trusting, he's pretty much always done what he's been told - he's a born victim.
But he's finding out he has to sharpen up, he has to defend his own interests because no one else will do it for him. To his great credit he's moved a lot and accepted a lot of advice and help and I'm sure he'll be able to negotiate a better price with Mike. He'll need to show Mike his figures and they'll come to a compromise. And Mike will realise he can't walk all over Ed in future. -
Message 16
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
There are plenty of long winded posts in N&Q JJ and most aren't as interesting as yours!
I share your pain over WR. -
Message 17
Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
Roy should have created a Business Plan for Ed. That would have sorted things out.
or
(just struck me)
maybe Roy did one for Mike, He Is Roy's Father, After All. -
Message 18
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Saturday, 12th January 2013
Snorkeroo Dinah!
Erm do you think Roy's capable of creating a successful business pan? -
Message 19
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 13th January 2013
>Mike really tied Ed up in a sack didn't he, if he can lower the price he pays for the milk without negotiation but Ed can't lower the price of the cows.<
Well I assume Ed could have refused to sell his milk at the reduced price after a certain amount of time if he gave notice. But I don't think it's reasonable to blame Mike for doing what anyone would do in business, which is to get the best deal for yourself. It's not his fault that Ed has been so naive and failed to negotiate at any time in the past.
Ed accepted the initial terms of the contract, he accepted the leasing agreement, he's accepted anything that came his way. He needed independent advice but he didn't realise it. I think that's part of his nature, he's always been trusting, he's pretty much always done what he's been told - he's a born victim.
But he's finding out he has to sharpen up, he has to defend his own interests because no one else will do it for him. To his great credit he's moved a lot and accepted a lot of advice and help and I'm sure he'll be able to negotiate a better price with Mike. He'll need to show Mike his figures and they'll come to a compromise. And Mike will realise he can't walk all over Ed in future.Â
OC I am tempted to enter discussion on the merits of your agruments, but really there is no point as we all know that TA writers do not work out commercial arrangements in advance.
So the actual commercial arrangements involved are unspecified, and therefore beyond rational discussion. -
Message 20
Posted by cath (U2234232) on Sunday, 13th January 2013
I agree the details are unspecified but we do know they have agreements in place. Iirc Mike gave a written contact to Ed for the leasing (which I think he'd got from the TFA or similar) and which Ed didn't challenge.
I don't remember if there was a written contract for the main business but they clearly have an agreement of sorts and I think Mike would have made sure to have it in writing to save the faff of proving an oral agreement. -
Message 21
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 13th January 2013
Nice agreements illustrating how simple it isn't!
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