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GW 19th. September
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Message 1.Â
Posted by pinktequila (U2803141) on Friday, 19th September 2008
Why does Joe not know the difference between straw and hay? Hay will not protect his pumpkins from the wet, it has different properties. You would have thought someone on the production team or at his allotmenwould know the difference.
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Message 2
Posted by welshcol (U2301689) on Friday, 19th September 2008
Yet another good standard prog. with very watchable and pertinent content maintaining the new high level set last week
Useful timely tips for most gardeners and a good mix of general interest items even those from a "calmer" watchable Carol helped with the mood. 
However we seemed to have got the hyperactive director/camera work back for most of the episode with zoom outs, tracking left then right followed by up then down. Who wants this total distraction from the prog. content? and could someone please explain the justification for it and what purpose it serves.
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Message 3
Posted by jennie-wren (U9422284) on Friday, 19th September 2008
A very enjoyable half hour! Could we please have a hour next time.
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Message 4
Posted by tony field (U2429972) on Friday, 19th September 2008
Yeh totally agree,i think that toby is an insperation and as for the other two, they`ve just had there day on gardeners world, swifty we call him, lovely bloke, but just not gardeners world material, he doesnt inspire u to anything but take the mick out of him, i`ve seen him on other progammes and generaly liked what he talks about.Carol is too lovely woman and met her at GW Live and she totally inspired us all to get and do more propergating and seed sewing, and sorry to critisise to her but on GW she just bores me,but like i`ve said in person thought totally different.but really cant say in words why that is?
Also too much time is taken up on the American idea of whats coming up next? what is that all about,why not suprise us with whats on next with more gardening ? -
Message 5
Posted by lin946 (U13337839) on Friday, 19th September 2008
It was great to see Toby so much more relaxed this week. I was really pleased when I heard he was going to be the new presenter. I thought he really got the balance this week - it's so much more cheerful these days anyway. Well done. PLEASE can we have an hour and some suggestions for veg we can plant in the garden/containers for winter.
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Message 6
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
we seemed to have got the hyperactive director/camera work back for most of the episode with zoom outs, tracking left then right followed by up then down. Who wants this total distraction from the prog. content?Â
I entirely agree with you about the camerawork. At one point, someone was digging a hole for a plant, but this wasn't good enough for the prat on the camera. He/she had to gradually reach the hole by panning across a couple of yards of bare soil - it made me smile for a moment. However, it's not really amusing when you decide to break away from the screen when the picture is constantly out of focus, to protect the old eyes. I'm sure if those responsible were old enough to write, they would come on to the board and explain themselves.
What has happened to poor Joe? Surely there wasn't a conscious decision made to make him look like a complete and utter dolt. The 'barrow-boy' approach is starting to wear a bit thin with me. This is a geezer who's destined to become the allotment bore with his stream of self-assured witterings. On the positive side, Toby Buckland continues to steer a steady course, and has picked some 'safe' subjects to get himself bedded in. Alys also managed to get through her bit without butchering the language (pay attention Joe), and Carol is definitely better in small doses (though she continues to laugh mid-sentence without any reason I can spot). Apart from the above reservations, it was another watchable effort - but the demise of Joe is just so sad to witness. -
Message 7
Posted by TallyHo (U2364821) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
Err yes... park -style bedding (winter or summer) is not one of my favourite looks and I think even I can buy a load of pansies from the GC and plonk them in serried ranks into a cleared flowerbed without devoting half of GW to the subject.
How about some winter crops for the allotment Joe? How about dealing with half hardy plants over the winter months? How about Carol explaining what constitutes seed or cuttings compost for best results? -
Message 8
Posted by bookhimdano (U10771514) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
In Toby GW have found an excellent gardener. He has a good gardening vision.
One must pity the allotment bloke who has better things to do? Shame because allotments is where the action is at these days. There must be someone with a love of allotments who could move it forward? To cover all the bases including 'how to store' and link up with the WI to show how to bottle etc. To calculate how much can be grown from an allotment. To give a list of what can be harvested week by week of the year? An opportunity and a lot of fun being missed?
Other ideas are how to get a 'bowling green' lawn, a shaped hedge, grafting techniques etc. A 2 min 'story behind the plant' spot like how Lavatera Barnsley was found as a sport by the eagle eyed Head Gardener John Clarke at Barnsley House?
GW seems to be heading in the right direction. I'll start watching again. -
Message 9
Posted by TallyHo (U2364821) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
1). What 'vision' is there in park bedding?
2). Why is a bowling green lawn still the prime requirement in a garden?
Both in my view are harking back to the 50s and in the case of bedding schemes, the 1850s. In other words dull, impersonal and bland.
I don't think I'll bother to watch unless TB asserts himself... it must be in there somewhere if Cambridge Physic Garden is a measure of the man's worth — unless of course, he only did the weeding. -
Message 10
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
I enjoyed the programme and felt inspired to rush out and buy pansies to brighten up a large front bed which I have never considered doing before. I liked his tips on getting spares too as I've had that trouble when deciding to add an extra window box or tub to my display and then failed to find the same pansies.
I really disliked the Dingle garden but that's personal taste. Precision planting of little soldier plants in serried ranks and garish colours doesn't do it for me.
It's a pity Carol's slot was so short but it was informative whereas Joe was his new Joke persona and should be dropped forthwith or sent back to design assignments where he sometimes knows what he's doing. He is adding nothing to the knowledge of people trying to manage an allotment, particularly novices and yes, he should know the difference between hay and straw. Alys was good too - clear and concise.
I'm very pleased to see the arrival of a standard size greenhouse and veggie plot more suited to normal gardens and gardeners and their available space and budgets. Let's hope the rest of this season's programmes continue in a similar vein but without the director/editor responsible for those camera angles and shots. Focus on the action please. -
Message 11
Posted by bookhimdano (U10771514) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
for anyone who actually does gardening the ability to get a good lawn is still a required greenkeeping skill. It is also rare. which is why there are so few good lawns about. And why they are prized. A lawn [and mowing it] is still the highest ideal in the uk popular imagination of gardening.
bedding has a place in any serious gardeners toolkit.
Not all gardeners love all styles of gardening and there is a fair deal of snobbishnss in gardening as in anything else. Not everyone has acres for an arboretum.
the only thing 'dull impersonal and bland' is gardening [whatever the style] done by those who have no love of it? -
Message 12
Posted by TallyHo (U2364821) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
the only thing 'dull impersonal and bland' is gardening [whatever the style] done by those who have no love of it?Â
Exactly. Do you suppose the county council 'love' their bedding schemes? Of course not, they are done to express civil pride and they have traditionally set aside the budget for it.
As for the perfect lawn, great if you want to play bowls on it. Not so great if any kind of family life is going take part on it... memories here of a friend who was, to be blunt, quite anal about her lawn, she asked us round for a party and we had to take our shoes off in case we damaged it. Predictably GW is now catering for Mr and Mrs Average and I have lost interest in the programme. -
Message 13
Posted by Boofer (U3709461) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
I thought the bedding bit was old-fashioned but there are still gardeners who go in for that sort of thing. My borders are never emptied because I grow lots of shrubs and perennials so any bedding I do is containerised.
Several people have asked on the message board for ideas for autumn/winter planting that gets away from standard fare. Maybe GW could tackle that.
As for lawns - there is usually part of one programme devoted to autumn lawn care. This year probably won't be any different. I for one like my daisies and given how shaded most of my garden is, have given up grass for moss.
btw Did anyone else notice that Alys was credited as a presenter this week? -
Message 14
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
What a lovely program again, easy on the eye and pretty interesting. Can't say I learned much but GW is much more than just educating. I'm really warming to Toby and Carol is much nicer after taking her 'Calm me down' pills.
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Message 15
Posted by norwichuk (U8561981) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
I was enjoying the winter bedding feature but annoyed that we didn't get to see the finished result!
Is the Sensory garden going to be one of the shortest lived areas ever in GW? Monty started this this year and Andy Sturgeon finished it but it looked a bit patchy in tonight's programme - perhaps planting has been ripped out for the greenhouse. -
Message 16
Posted by Aspidistra (U11680993) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
Pinktequila, I am completely lost, about the hay and straw issue, as I didn't see the programme. What is the difference between hay and straw purrlease? I haven't a clue.
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Message 17
Posted by Sheila1 (U2826143) on Saturday, 20th September 2008
Great programme again. Really enjoyed it. Long may it continue.
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Message 18
Posted by Boofer (U3709461) on Sunday, 21st September 2008
Straw is stalks from crops like wheat and hay is grass which has dried out.
Hay will rot quickly when it gets wet whereas straw won't. Straw can be used for thatching houses for this reason. -
Message 19
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Sunday, 21st September 2008
Hi Boofer - thanks for that concise explanation. I feel I've actually learnt something.
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Message 20
Posted by Aspidistra (U11680993) on Sunday, 21st September 2008
Thanks boofer, now I know what to use to keep a hamster happy and dry, should I one day acquire one.
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Message 21
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Sunday, 21st September 2008
Works for rabbits and guinea pigs too.
Any straw left after harvesting pumpkins can also be used in hedgehog dens. -
Message 22
Posted by Braidman (U11753668) on Sunday, 21st September 2008
Talking about lawns, with all the rain mine have been very green almost all season.
My kids have have played on both back and front lawns all "summer", when it has been dry enough for them to play on them, without any damage to the surface!
Now in two nights, our resident hedgehog has dug holes in the grass all over them,in both back and front, searching for what ever?
It is times like these, that I could see it far away! -
Message 23
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
Thank you Moderator for closing the 'Two strikes and in' thread. I too side with Obelixx in that it's tedious to keep seeing new threads when there are existing ones.
Why not have a series of thread titles such as 'GW - 19 September', 'GW - 26 September' and so on, so that posters can post on the appropriate thread. Not that I think it will stop some people opening yet new threads on the same subject. I think a touch of commonsense should be applied here.
We in the South East can also call a spade a spade
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Message 24
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I'll confess to being a bit perplexed as to why Frank's thread was considered so out of order. There are two threads leading on the hay/straw question, neither of which have been closed. OK, so it was a bit self-indulgent of Frank to open another - presumably he wanted to emphasise his point in the title. But I sense that the chorus of disapproval had as much to with the history of the person than the thread itself. (And now I'll duck...)
Anyway, more to the point I met Toby Buckland briefly earlier this week. First impressions: taller than he looks on the TV. Astonishingly bright blue eyes. Quietly confident and comfortable in his own skin. Warm and friendly, quick witted, prone to laughter and likes to put people at ease. So add that to what you see on screen and I think we have a real gem. -
Message 25
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
Another enjoyable GW. However, the intolerance by some on here when subjects that "don't float their boat" are covered is beginning to depress me. Gardening is a huge subject and GW can't possibly please everyone.
Turning to swooping camera shots - can't say I noticed. I thought GW had taken on board the complaints about dodgy camera work and given us some excellent close-ups when we need to see detail. I know a lot of us enjoy a glass or wine or two on a Friday evening. Only speculation - but I wonder if a little sobriety might not go amiss. -
Message 26
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I thought GW had taken on board the complaints about dodgy camera workÂ
I don't know how you arrive at this conclusion - particularly when you indicate that you can't see any problem. No-one has ever come to the board to explain why any shots should be out of focus at all, or why there should be any erratic movements in the pictures. If only someone (perhaps yourself) could point out the circumstances when it may actually be better not to see the subject, rather than to see and hopefully admire it. I know some folks hate intrusive background music, but while I agree that it's mostly unnecessary, I know I can always turn the sound down a bit, whereas with a picture out of focus, my old eyes strain like hell. I'm only responding because you refer to the intolerance 'by some' (the accepted cop-out) to some subjects. I therefore simply wish you know that I detest out of focus camerawork, and will continue to bleat about it until it ceases, or until someone comes onto the board to explain what it's intended to achieve (then I can probably moan about the explanation). -
Message 27
Posted by saintmissfluffy (U12195645) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I loved this weeks gardeners world, but then I did have a cold frame full of winter pansies to play with on saturday morning
I am really warming to Toby, I think he will only get better as he settles in. -
Message 28
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I have to say that I am really beginning to like the music. It is quite stirring and certainly makes more of an impact than the old version.
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Message 29
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I told myself I'd wait until I'd seen 3 programmes before I would comment, but ...
I could not then and still cannot understand the enthusiasm after programme 1 as, apart from common sense, it appeared to lack anything else. And please don't waste time writing that using a plank to edge a lawn or a spade to prop a plant up is anything other than that.
Week 2 was abysmal. Back to basics, yes. Back to Percy Thrower and 19th century bedding plants and planting, no thank you.
Absolutely awful so far - please let us at least see more of the one person on the programme with some horticultural substance, Carol. -
Message 30
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I'm only responding because you refer to the intolerance 'by some' (the accepted cop-out) to some subjects.Â
I used 'the accepted cop-out' as you put it because; 1. I didn't have the time to trawl through this weeks post mortem posts to name names and 2. I thought it would be polite not to name names. By subjects, I was refering to gardening topics, which I thought I'd made clear in my post.
I therefore simply wish you know that I detest out of focus camerawork, and will continue to bleat about it until it ceases, or until someone comes onto the board to explain what it's intended to achieve (then I can probably moan about the explanation).Â
I was not aware of out-of-focus camera work but then I was watching on a 40 inch flatscreen TV.
I can't believe I'm spending my few free minutes between meetings defending myself on this 'Gardening' messageboard. I really enjoyed Friday's programme but I'm afraid the nit picking on here has rather taken the edge of it. I tried to make light of my post. Seems I need not have bothered. Ken - please chill. -
Message 31
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
I really enjoyed Friday's programme but I'm afraid the nit picking on here has rather taken the edge of it. I tried to make light of my post. Seems I need not have bothered. Ken - please chill.Â
I also enjoyed Friday's programme - although I accept that it may not sound like it at times. I'm sorry you think that I'm in need of chilling, and would ask you to accept that this can only be as a consequence of poorly chosen words. I'm honestly not the type who gets animated about things (though I do have strong opinions), and often this very coldness of words must give me a curmudgeonly feel. I can never be a--ed with 'smileys' or the like, so fellow boarders will just have to believe that I simply say what I think, and never set out to cause irritation (though I confess it never bothers me). I'm sorry I grabbed the wrong end of the stick relative to 'subjects', and can now see where you were coming from. Even I accept that we can't have a full programme dedicated to our own pet subjects. Anyway, apart from me nursing an envy of your 40" set, I trust we're still chums. Best wishes from a chilling friend. -
Message 32
Posted by greeneddy (U6603838) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
apart from me nursing an envy of your 40" set, I trust we're still chumsÂ
Hope that one doesn't get read out of context, Ken!
(I do do smileys).
I'm with you, Ken, on the out of focus/wonky camerawork, but maybe if you've never noticed it, or never used to watch GW before it was introduced, then it doesn't irritate so much. I had a bad dose of viral labyrinthitis earlier this year, causing dizziness and nausea (and no, CyclingGardener, it was not to do with the tequila!), and the hand-held camera shots bring the memory of it back, and sometimes make me literally feel sick (and then I have to fast-forward/switch off). I don't consider it nit-picking; these posts are read by the people at the beeb, and what we say on here can have an impact. -
Message 33
Posted by quitedutchbrit (U10671966) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
surely a whole hour can be filled by Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú (there is so much total much rubbish on TV). Even more pictures of gardens - don't all have to be our own taste (formal borders of annuals like last week's GW are also OK by me to see, we're talking about LIVING things here - it's awful when people say they 'hate' other people's ideas about their gardens. Flowers and plants are alive and should be looked at with respect), just to see what others can do, can produce and what THEY love is interesting - at least I think it is!
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Message 34
Posted by 1stClassAlan (U2459016) on Monday, 22nd September 2008
"posted by Boofer"
Straw is stalks from crops like wheat and hay is grass which has dried out.
Hay will rot quickly when it gets wet whereas straw won't. Straw can be used for thatching houses for this reason.Â
Yes, you are right - but only so in very general terms.
Straw for thatching is specially selected ( not to say specially grown varieties too ) corn stalks and stems with not much leaf ( they get rubbed or drop off naturally in the process of stooking and thrashing) those ears still retained are cut off by the thatcher ; however; all straw is very much inferior to the preferred Norfolk Reed ( which now mostly comes from abroad !)
Hay is definately dried grass ( stalks leaves abd all ) and is primarily intended as a fodder crop but this does not necessarily mean that it won't do the same job as straw in the garden when you can't get anything else.
In this year's wonderful summer both hay and straw have been merrily rotting away in the fields even before they are cut. -
Message 35
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
Anyway, apart from me nursing an envy of your 40" set, I trust we're still chums. Best wishes from a chilling friend.Â
Ken, your post has cheered me up as I deal with a whole set of new problems and queries the day has brought. Thank you and best wishes to you too. -
Message 36
Posted by hdehoon (U2175617) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
Loved the programme.
Somebody called Heliotope a 'blue' flower. In my mind this flower is purple. There seems to be a constant confusion about blue and purple.
Who thinks Helioptrope is purple too? -
Message 37
Posted by Gaynor Witchard (U11583299) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
Hi hdehoon
I grow Heliotrope in my front garden and it's definitely purple. The RHS describes the scented flowers as being 'deep violet'. I, too, really enjoyed the programme and am looking forward to next week.
As for the 'rumour' about GW being 'sidelined' -I'd rather keep that one to the sidelines - where it belongs. It's not fact, and I sincerely hope it won't become so! -
Message 38
Posted by Gaynor Witchard (U11583299) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
oops - sorry about the 'sideline' bit - was distracted by another thead...
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Message 39
Posted by janerowena (U10782401) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
I was always told that heliotrope blue was one of those colours that people couldn't decide on - is it purple or is it blue? Different cultivars may lean one way or the other nowadays.
I just wish the programme were a bit longer. I get a jolt when I realise that it is over after only 30 mins.
How about a nice long programme on how to overwinter much-prized and slightly tender plants?
And why, when presenters show how to take cuttings, do they never mention that the cuttings do need to be checked from time to time for dryness/moulds etc.? To watch them, you would think that it is safe to just pop your cuttings in their plastic bags under a bench for several months. -
Message 40
Posted by Sir Plantalot (U11098143) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
I'm not going to enter the great straw debate but I would like to say something about GW so I hope I've chosen the right thread.
Although I enjoyed Fridays GW at times it seemed as though it had been rushed into production,perhaps thats why it was only on for 1/2 an hour.
I'm sure Toby will prove to be an excellent presenter,he seems knowledgable and is enthusiastic without going overboard, that said I don't have many complaints about the others but what I don't want is a presenter who pushes their opinions down your throat.
The one thing that really hacks me off is the arty camera work but watching old GWs on UKTV it seems that this has been happening for a long time Does anyone know if the producers have ever been interviewed and asked to justify the camera work. -
Message 41
Posted by lunicorn (U12603465) on Tuesday, 23rd September 2008
Ken message 26, lucky its only old eyes not the ears, the problem with the music is some of us oldies cant hear voices with background music if we turned it down we certainly would not be able to follow it.just a mention not a moan.
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Message 42
Posted by quitedutchbrit (U10671966) on Wednesday, 8th October 2008
On GW it's always a mystery to me why music is required at all when birds are often singing their hearts out and the noises of digging and rustling about in the leaves are really the sounds that ought to go with a gardening programme.
But this battle was lost years ago and there are people employed in the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú whose job is simply this: 'fill every second with something, even when someone is speaking'.
I've counted 10 different pieces of music being played in quarter of an hour on GW several times. Chelsea is also cursed with it. Very aggravating to those who like music and therefore choose when they want to listen to it. But some people just don't seem to hear it at all. So there are 2 categories of people and neither are catered for!
We're all being daily brainwashed in that respect - just back from shopping and have heard music in supermarket, chemist, DIY megga store, flower shop and on the street from loudspeakers! All different - all 'mood' music - which puts me in a bad mood because I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO HEAR IT!
but I, like you, get no choice and it's the same difference with TV!
So mine IS a gripe - sorry!
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