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Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 20th April 2009
I don't know whether Mr. Buczaki has a beef with the Beeb, but he certainly does not mince his words about TB and the new GW and, guess what, he thinks as we do:
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Apologies to Mr. Buczacki for not spelling his name correctly in message above.
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I totally agree with Stefan's words - except the fact that he seems to dismiss Monty as a gardener - it was Monty's infectious enthusiasm for growing veggies that made me turn into a dedicated veggie grower - but I do agree that Toby does not give the imp[ression that he is an experienced, enthusiastic, dedicated and knowledgable gardener
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Monty's name was not included because, if I read the article correctly, he did not present GW from his own garden, but from Berryfields.
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I'm glad someone of his standing is making his opinion known. It lends a lot of credibility to the anonymous voices here - most of whom have been making complaints of a similar ilk for months and possibly years.
But will this change things?
Having watched the first couple of episodes of this season, I think not. A lot of money has been invested in Greenacre and once committed or spent, they will be loathe to walk away from it.
I think making the programme from the head presenter's garden may be the crucial missing ingredient. The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú seems to think that by moving to a garden that can be the presenters' playground (and the fact that we will have several presenters) will pick up the pace of the programme. But the attention spans of GW viewers are not that short. So it comes across as flashy and clumsy.
I've said on these boards that I'm studying for an RHS Level 2. A quick discussion with my classmates shows that from the tutor to the vast majority of students, none of us think the programme has much credibility. And surely we are the core GW audience?
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"..... I've said on these boards that I'm studying for an RHS Level 2. A quick discussion with my classmates shows that from the tutor to the vast majority of students, none of us think the programme has much credibility. And surely we are the core GW audience?"
Going by the last two programmes, sadly, I don't think you are the core GW audience. Have a look at the TV listings for programmes on at the same time as GW and you'll discover the audience the programme producers are trying to win over (hint: the big audience is not looking at the news).
And it's not any of the rest of us posters either - we're the audience for the 'old, elitist' GW and the target audience, in the view of the production team, requires a more 'accessible' programme. We now know how the production team defines the word 'accessible' - I won't spell it out as it's all been said before but it includes lots and lots of gnomes, and kids and pretty shots of sweet nothings.
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However eloquently we present our case the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú will just ignore us. But when professional presenters like Stefan Buczacki tell them and it starts to reach the pages of the press, then (as with Jonathon Ross) perhaps they will listen.
As a UK license fee payer, I would be interested to know how much the budget for this ‘Greenacres’ was.
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David K,
You might be interested to know the budget now but when you find out you'll be outraged! TB started mentioning a few figures during the programme and it didn't cover everything by a long shot. I think we're stuck with this now they've spent all this money (and how much do you think an old ice cream van costs ). Never mind. Don't forget, everyone, there are plenty of books out there - which is where I learn a lot.
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And it's not any of the rest of us posters either - we're the audience for the 'old, elitist' GW and the target audience, in the view of the production team, requires a more 'accessible' programme. Â
We all have to learn to practice fairer gardening... it's shocking how the cancer of gnomism has excluded the plaster figures from our borders for so many series.
Toby et al. are courageously righting a great injustice. I hope they drag Monty back onto the show next week in sackcloth (or should that be hessian?) to make a public apology for his disgraceful elitism, which has so warped our expectations of Gardeners World.
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Very interesting to see a professional gardener having a go at GW and virtually saying all the things us posters on here have said. Let's hope someone takes some notice - wouldn't it be nice if = say = ITV were to make a REAL gardening program?
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As I mentioned somewhere else, Channel 4 are making a prime time Gardening programme with Matthew Wilson to be aired later this summer.
It is mentioned in this weeks AG mag.
I'm sure we will all be keen to see what it is like
Link to this forum: What Stefan Buczaki thinks of the new GW:
Anyone remember the series 'Plants for Free' by CH4 TV in the 1980s? It was an excellent series about plant propagation, I still have the booklet that accompanied the series and find it very useful & informative.
Link to this forum: What Stefan Buczaki thinks of the new GW:
I'm sure that the new hip/hot/happening producer of Gardener's World would love to put the (former) viewers of Gardener's World at the 'pathetic loser' end of the Cool Wall.
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I saw Stefan on an obscure channel a year or so ago, hosting a programme he made some years ago, and he was so boring and dreary, like a dull old prof. Obviously an expert - I have his seminal book on pests and diseases and refer to it a lot, but perish the thought of someone with his approach getting even a five minute slot on GW. He'd run it like one of his horticultural seminars - great if you are a would be horticulturist or a gardening enthusiast, but a disaster on a mainstream Friday night programme.
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Quote...
I'm sure that the new hip/hot/happening producer of Gardener's World would love to put the (former) viewers of Gardener's World at the 'pathetic loser' end of the Cool Wall.
Did you do your research on this as I think you will find over the last 2 years viewing figures have fallen or are you actually meaning that period.
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Someone is listening to us as the Mail is quoting a member from this board in today's paper
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let's hope there's more of the same (had a quick peek at the Points of View message board yesterday and there too posters are angry about the last programme aired.
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It appears the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú aren't listening though! They also appear not to be looking at the viewing figures. How popular is Beechgrove I wonder.
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In France when they slightly miffed about something they take direct action and blockade all the ports.
In Thailand when they are moderately bemused they take direct action by occupying the main airport for weeks.
When the Burmese are hacked off the monks get sent out into the streets to be run over by tanks.
In Britain when we are angry and outraged .....we write to Barry Took!
Harry
Link to this forum: What Stefan Buczaki thinks of the new GW:
Is Barry Took still going then?
I must get out more
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I'm not familiar with Barry, is he related to Peregrin?
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There is a piece by Max Davidson in the Telegraph today quoting Stephan Buczacki's piece and saying "The current show is a textbook case of dumbed-down television".
Can't disagree.
Link to this forum: What Stefan Buczaki thinks of the new GW:
What a self satisfied old git he comes across as.
Stefan, LOTS of people move into homes the builders have just moved out of. I've lived in several places, rented and owned, that I have had to remove fallen down sheds, concreted patio's, paths, fallen down fences, lawns with more weed than grass, builders rubble, work on soil that is 3 parts brick crumb and one part clay and so on. I think it's great to see them create something from scratch, giving a realistic idea for viewers about how long it takes to grow real plants in less than fabulous soils on a blank canvas. I like that I can see the whole site, I like that I could possibly go and visit it someday.
Yes it's also great to see them working in established garden spaces but how often do you really get a review of work done other than in passing. How often do you have exactly the same size space, aspect, soil as they do? not often.
I too am taking RHS 2, and my peers have mixed views about GW. The tutor insists we watch it and listen to GQT for information and indeed I learn from both.
GW is about inspiration. I think this series is about inspiring another generation or two, about moving gardening forward with the times. It's not that I even like the new format, I don't but I appreciate they are trying to move it forward. I have been watching it since childhood when my mother was glued to it every Friday...that was about 40 years ago...times change!
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I agree totally. He was always a boring old fhat (to get round the word checker!) in the Percy Thrower mould, despite his undisputed expertise, and I got the distinct feeling from his article that he was miffed not to be invited to present GW from his own mature garden - (great for book sales of course). He did have some good points to make, but I felt there was some spite behind his comments.
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we obviously need two gardener's world programmes, I though Percy Thrower was brilliant I would love to see someone presenting with his knowledge. I guess other people would prefer bodging friendly presenters
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Hi PinkTrquila,
It doesn't have to be a straight choice between a Percy Thrower or a bodger. Patrick Moore is an expert astronomer, and astronomical nerds will forgive his awful presentation style so long as the content is good, but could you see him attracting a new audience of future amateur astronomers?
Percy was (IMHO) in the same dull expert mould,unlike Geoff and Alan who followed him.
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I have read the article on the tin-ternet at:
For the life of me, how can anyone wear such a jacket and bow-tie and get away with it. Perhaps Stefan bought a job lot of deckchair covers.
Anyway agree with most of the articles facts, but is there a tinge of sour grapes perhaps.
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I'd like GW to be a good quality, reliable programme without gimmicks and lightweight content. They currently have some good, informed presenters who seem to be at the mercy of production trendies.
A new programme should be created for beginners and that could feature the wacky camerawork and intrusive music that seems to be on the increase.
Perhaps someone thinks that by tarting up GW it will lose viewers. They can then terminate GW altogether as they think it's 'proper' format too old fashioned.
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A good point Phil (If I maybe so bold).
I think the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú are somewhat astute in knowing the current market, and it is highly unlikely other TV channels will be able to create similar gardening programmes for the same budget, so the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú can change the format at will, without due regard for its loyal mass audience.
Without mass disapproval in the media, the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú believe they have the GW audience by the Curly Kale.
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Agreed. The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú seems to behave more and more like Marie Antoinette. And we all know what happened to her.
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Goldie,
The thing with The Sky at Night is that they have bought in a younger presenter to support Sir Pat and he is appealing to the younger audience. Chris Lintott is amiable and easy to understand yet very intelligent, and he readily commands respect from the viewer. I have no doubt that he will continue with The Sky at Night when Patrick goes.
Why can't they manage to do the same for GW I wonder? Young audiences don't want to be patronised and fed staged on screen banter, they want to be inspired and guided through tasks of varying skill levels. Why is it so difficult for the GW producers to comprehend this?
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I don't think it's anything to do with whether there's a young presenter or not, Sir Patrick's The Sky at Night has integrity. Which is something Gardeners' World has lost, by a thousand cuts.
I knew the knives would be out for Monty at the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú when I read one of his Observer articles where he referred to HMG as a "ship of fools". How do we know the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú weren't got at?
You get the feeling the programme's been manipulated back onto the party line and they're merely trotting out the next stage of the 5-year Plan. I don't feel anyone on GW 'owns' the programme anymore and therefore it's lost it's personality.
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What Stefan Buczaki thinks of the new GW....Â
And Dr Buczaki's not the only one...
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I think Joe Swift was very ill advised to refer to Stefan Buczacki as a 'has been' to try to justify the present GW!
Big big mistake Joe to refer to your elders & betters in that dismissive & disrespectful way.
You just don’t say that of people who have spent a lifetime gaining the respect of gardeners,
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Big big mistake Joe to refer to your elders & betters in that dismissive & disrespectful way.Â
"elder" and "better" are not necessarily synonymous.
I recently remarked on another thread that Stefan Buczacki is critical of GW, probably because he was overlooked as a main presenter for any of the recent series. His grousing article reprinted in a number of papers reads like it's written by someone with a grudge against his former employer.
Hejhog
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The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú have replaced what was an informative and enjoyable programme for both new and old gardeners, with a pathetic parody which teaches no-one anything.
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, in reply to message 19.
Posted by mutebuttondelight (U3517782) on Wednesday, 6th May 2009
I doubt that the figures for BG are as high as for GW. BG does not have normal TV coverage in England & Wales, so the number of viewers available to it will be lower than the number available to GW. The population of Scotland is about 5 million, whereas the population of England and Wales is over ten times that. So you'd have to be looking at pro-rata figures.
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"elder" and "better" are not necessarily synonymous.Â
But are in this case. Certainly older than Swift! Better? I think so, given his dumbo efforts on his 'allotment' for instance.
At the very least, his remarks were unprofessional.
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Dumbo's efforts on his allotment?! I never saw an elephant, but I did see someone who got reasonable success as a first timer. He's also a published writer a successful garden designer, and has been involved with GW for 11 years. And suddenly, now GW has been revamped, he's "Dumbo"?
Hejhog
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C'mon hejhog, be reasonable!
You cannot compare apples with pears.
I enjoyed Joe's start on his allotment very much but comparing Joe to Dr. Buczacki is laughable. And I too think Joe was very ill-advised to refer to a former colleague, any former colleague, in such dismissive terms (and before anyone asks, I am not suggesting Dr. Buczacki take over GW nor do I know him or work for him or anything else).
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, in reply to message 40.
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
you can read whatever you like into things sometimes.
I read it as being he thought GW was a load of rubbish because it seems to have hit a real low point and he was just reflecting the mood of alot people.
I've not been aware of such widespread general negativity about this programme until this year. I get the feeling alot of people feel let down.
You cannot alienate your core audience and then not expect criticism. That's the big mistake they are making at the moment. I really dont think they know what they are doing, they dont seem to know who watches GW and Why. They apparently did some research for this new series so I'd be very interested to know the details of that.
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What did I miss when I blinked?
Whose posting has been removed - was it in reply to mine?
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Now really. Stefan's column in the Manchester Evening News sounds like sour grapes. It is a completely negative "in my day, when I was involved, it was much better, because I didn't need a team of researchers and a horticultural team". His biggest gripe seems to be that the GW presenters are not using their own private garden. Why should they? Is a professional gardener's commitment to excellence any less because they are not tending their own patch? Stefan is factually wrong, of course, because Carol's private garden features every week.
Stefan obviously fell out with the producers of GW some time in the past and has been overlooked as a main presenter on a couple of occasions. I see that you have hoisted him as a figurehead for your negative campaign and use his experience to lend weight to your arguments. Just because some has-been agrees with you doesn't mean you are right!
Hejhog
It was Save-GW's posting. I cannot repeat it because it will be removed. It was not very nice about Joe.
Hejhog
I dont need a figure head, and certainly not him!
I was only meaning he is reflecting the current mood about peoples reaction about the new GW.I think there has been far more intelligent things written about the programme and its problems in the press and on other message boards and here. I'm not the best at articulating always what I mean and have been very emotional about it at times, I blame it on my italian side!
But at the end of the day people are entitled to there opinion for and against.
I just hope it will get better and I can start loving it again, nexts weeks programme (15th may) looks like it could be a good one, on paper anyway. Might just have a peak at it.
Oh poor diddums did I say I how much I loved Joes garden design skills? I really really love that wonderful idea of Joes for wiring your house plants to the garden fence...
Have you ever heard of the expression "tounge in cheek?"
Some people are so precious, they can't tolerate anyone who has a different opinion, or who god forbid makes a joke.
And for all those who missed Cleve West's blog discussing Joe's eye for design...
"I knew the knives would be out for Monty at the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú when I read one of his Observer articles where he referred to HMG as a "ship of fools". How do we know the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú weren't got at? "
How hilarious, a conspiracy theory relating to GW!
Monty had a stroke. They are fairly devastating things to recover from. That he left GW was not a surprise. His health is far more important than some TV program.
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