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Gardeners' World 16th October
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Message 1.Â
Posted by saima_host (U13967342) on Friday, 16th October 2009
Hi all
a clip from tonight's show is available at
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Message 2
Posted by paperwhite (U6380063) on Friday, 16th October 2009
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..............................
Hope it gets better than this! -
Message 3
Posted by pjgolf (U2469936) on Friday, 16th October 2009
I thought it looked OK.
If people are posting negative comments based on a 2 minute excerpt from the show then there is really no hope for it !
PJ -
Message 4
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Friday, 16th October 2009
Totally devoid of anything even remotely interesting
If it was a injured horse you would put it down
How low will it go? -
Message 5
Posted by garrigillgirl (U14111305) on Friday, 16th October 2009
Aaaawwwwww...........
..and I thought a couple of weeks ago it was getting better - jeez......that was bad tonight.....
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Message 6
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Friday, 16th October 2009
Hello All
Well, I liked the guy with the fruit and veg bit, nice accent, and that sort of reminded me of a gardening program I used to watch. Also the old guy that died and his passion for pumpkins was a nice piece in the show. Why is it when they leave Green Acres to visit anywhere else, the show turns into a gardening program of sorts? I think Zippy and Bungle(LPM
)must have read the recipes from the boards that were supplied by treechange and the rest of the Ladies about Christmas cooking and that brought forward the Christmas cheer in the pantomime eating the gourd sketch, you were just missing a catchy punchline there Joe to finish the skit.
The ideas in Green Acres how to do things is frankly getting absurd and the sooner the Vet is called in the better. I am trying very hard to be positive but it is becoming increasingly difficult even to attempt it now with shows like this last one. Abismal -
Message 7
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Saturday, 17th October 2009
I agree, the items that didn't include Greenacre were at least watchable. Although interesting to watch, I can't see the Victorian way of storing veg catching on.
TB could do himself a favour by stop thinking up these silly Heath Robinson ideas, like a box on a pole with fleece & pegs....who on earth would want clutter-up their gardens with such eyesores. -
Message 8
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Saturday, 17th October 2009
We could not stop laughing at the fleece either. It was joined in the middle somehow but there was big holes in it across the fleece. I could see the first strong wind ripping it to pieces. I do think Toby has been reading these boards because he always makes a point of explaining things the following week. I much prefered the old man with his pumpkins i only really watch for the outside topics. How many minutes come from Greenacre its hardly worth the time there.
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Message 9
Posted by omega lexa (U14172975) on Saturday, 17th October 2009
When does this travesty of a gardening programme end for the winter?
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Message 10
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Saturday, 17th October 2009
I could see the first strong wind ripping it to pieces.Â
The rawplug was falling out of the wall, so it will have collapsed before the wind could get at it anyway.
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Message 11
Posted by garrigillgirl (U14111305) on Saturday, 17th October 2009
Sorry -
should have made myself a little clearer. I too, enjoyed the stuff outside of Greenacres and the old gentleman with his squashes was a delight - the clamping was ok but probably not relevant to today's storage issues, but I enjoyed watching it......
I'm quite easily pleased really - just a decent, factual, informative 1 hour programme. I like the Beechgrove format 
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Message 12
Posted by SparklyTwirler (U14172124) on Saturday, 17th October 2009
A poor offering this week methinks
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Message 13
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Well as a fleece (netting) on a batten fixed to the wall would have been the traditional way of protecting peaches and apricots, I saw nothing wrong with Toby's contraption on Friday night. How much better to be able to wind it up and out of the way when not in use.
If one was copying the idea then vine eyes would be fixed properly, I'm sure. Didn't notice rawl plugs falling out. -
Message 14
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I found it disappointing though I did enjoy the enthusiasm and explanations from the couple with the nursery. The pumpkin man was a delight and I hope his work will continue.
As for the fleece - well, the idea is sound but the execution shabby as ever with Toby. Apart from the fact that he'd just stapled bits of fleece together with gaps I could see on its first outing, any frost that rolls down it will be accompanied by more that rolls down the gap and round the sides and gets to the poor old apricot anyway. Pretty unsightly too and ot something I'd want as a feature in the garden.
Carol's bit on tree colour was quite interesting but for people wanting to select a tree for a small garden it might have been more helpful to visit a nursery such as Hilliers and see sizes and shapes and discuss other seasonal interest for teh rest of the year. In a small garden a tree has to have more than one good feature to earn its place.
Joe's bit was OK too but of limited interest. How many of you grow a red banana? -
Message 15
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
if that contraption popped up in my garden i would set fire to it. eye-sore.
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Message 16
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I didn't see the programme, but if I've read this thread correctly, last week Toby showed how to plant an apricot and justified the location on pollination grounds. This week he has retro fitted a frost protection system because the location is potentially too cold.
Let's hope not too many people went out and planted one... -
Message 17
Posted by darren p (U8518743) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
londonplantmad ---- you are so right ! what is the point in having a base garden in greenacre, when most of the plants seemingly fell from the sky overnight, the items they do show are quite brief and dubious in quality(no wonder carol stays far, far away) the sections of the show filmed at other locations are much better in quality. get rid of snooze acre and just have clips from other and better gardens . eg the lily pond from wisely, the pumpkin dude, more from harlow carr, more from ngs gardens and national trust. the incumbent gardeners at those places speak with so much more authority and conviction.
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Message 18
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Let's hope not too many people went out and planted one...Â
To me more precise, let's hope that people take with a pinch of salt /any/of his ideas. -
Message 19
Posted by jungle_jane (U1807090) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Apart from the fact that he'd just stapled bits of fleece together with gaps I could see on its first outing, any frost that rolls down it will be accompanied by more that rolls down the gap and round the sides and gets to the poor old apricot anyway. Pretty unsightly too and ot something I'd want as a feature in the garden.Â
I thought this also.
But having never grown an apricot before. I was wondering if someone could tell me if the plant would still need protection from the frosts if it was grown in a fan shaped on a south facing wall instead?
I'm thinking about growing one in the future, but Toby's advice was very confusing.
Also I can't understand why Toby wanted only to protect the flowers if the apricot plant itself was hardy enough. Then says that the cold actually helps the fruiting buds.
Thought the couple with the reeds were a bit smug for me to watch.
Joe's bit was OK too but of limited interest. How many of you grow a red banana?Â
I plan to get one.....one day for my jungle garden. You can't go wrong with a Musa Basjoo though. -
Message 20
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I cannot beleive that any professional would allow his reputation to be used to his disadvantage. Every week now we are seeing Toby allow himself to be used in these stupid childish projects. If he has no pride in his capabilities thats fine but should we have to be part of it just because we want to watch a gardening program. Carol has removed herself which i think was the best thing to do and Alys and Joe are not regular presenters. For their credibility and our sanity please lets scrap this stupid program and have something that gardeners not program makers want and need a decent gardening program.
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Message 21
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I thought the on-demand frost protection was an excellent idea, and will be making one this afternoon.
Unlike some people, however, I will take the idea and adapt it according to my situation and materials I have.
I think for myself you see, and expect gardening programmes to give ideas and inspiration rather than spoon-feed me instructions to follow to the letter. -
Message 22
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Good for you Sinbad but not so good for gardening novices who accept current GW "advice" at face value.
Apricots and peaches really do need to be planted on sheltered south or south west facing walls and any frost protection needs to be complete, not half baked. The idea of the roll up fleece is fine but the execution sadly lackadaisical and I can't see TB's construction lasting 5 minutes in anything more than a breeze. -
Message 23
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I credit the "novice" with the intelligence to adapt ideas to suit their own situation though.
Also, most of us don't have a perfect site with a perfect south-facing aspect. A long step-by-step lecture on how to site the perfect apricot in the perfect situation would be completely irrelevant to most of us.
However, giving people ideas on how to make the best of their less-than-ideal situation to have a grow at growing what they like to grow is relevant to most of us.
Once again, well done GW, keep up the good work! (One of the highlights of my week is watching GW on the Iplayer on a Saturday night in, because I'm down the pub on Friday!) -
Message 24
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Rubbish!! What's the point of wasting your money buying plants/trees if you can't provide the right conditions for them to grow?
Any tips for growing ericaceous plants on chalk? -
Message 25
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Exactly my point. Most of us don't have the perfect conditions for most plants, so GW showing how to grow things in the perfect situation is irrelevent to most of us.
Instead, they should provide ideas on how to try new things and adapt less-than-ideal conditions to grow things we like. -
Message 26
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Sinbad - we all have gardens with awkward spots, and problematic north/east facing areas. Of course, if you want something enough, you can choose to fight the conditions and try to make plants flourish there which don't want to, assuming you know that in advance and are prepared to do what's needed. But most people don't/can't do that.
In that light I think GW's first point of call should be to suggest plants that would be sure to do well in tricky spots. As I said in last week's thread, if you have a north or east facing wall and want to grow fruit, then a Morello cherry would be perfect. Raspberries would be superb too. And having given some good suggestions, then OK - suggest others that might be tried, but would need protection. But the apricot was planted last week as his top choice, with no mention that it would need protection. Do you think TB assumed his audience just knew that? I'm flattered by that assumption, if so.
Alternatively, he didn't realise how much colder Birmingham is than his home county of Cornwall and has now had to adapt his advice. Take your pick. -
Message 27
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
GW mentioned protection this week and gave us ideas on how to do it. Perfect.
Also, some gardeners would even argue that a South-facing wall is a bad idea for apricots because the earlier blossom will be susceptible to cold and your crop will fail.
If GW had advised not to even bother trying apricots without a perfect south facing aspect, they would have been giving incorrect advice.
On the other hand, if they had shown how to grow apricots in the perfect south-facing aspect, it would have been totally irrelevant to most viewers. -
Message 28
Posted by pinktequila (U2803141) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I enjoyed the gentleman in the victorian garden using making the clamp using the same book that I still use. It is a very effective way of storing veg and one my father used to use on the market garden. I am not sure why Toby had to try and improve on a tested method by burying a dustbin and then putting about 4 potatoes in it and telling us that the squashes would be better in a greenhouse.
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Message 29
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I think Toby was demonstrating a good way for potatoes. I find potatoes keep really well in the ground EXCEPT for the slugs and until there's a hard frost like last year, so putting in a dustbin where the slugs can't get is a great idea. I am going to try it. As for squashes, they are ideal for shelves inside.
We all find our own ways of storing things and as carrots don't do so well for me stored in trays of compost, I'd like to try the old fashioned clamp one day. Haven't had a decent crop this year though so got non to store.
I find the onion rope hung in the garage works well.
I've researched this apricot thing and found that the RHS recommend hand pollination anyway because of early flowering, (I use a rabbit's tail on a stick)although they do recommend a south facing wall but then Toby did say it was an experiment. You can read the recommended way in books easily. Yes, let's experiment a little. Why not? I've noticed that lot's of plants don't read the books and so don't always do what they're supposed to. -
Message 30
Posted by bookhimdano (U10771514) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
apricots.
i would have thought ripening would be a bigger concern than pollination. swings and roundabouts?
quite a nice show this week -
Message 31
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
If the delicate little flowers all get mashed by the cold because of early flowering on a south-facing wall, then there will be nothing to pollinate and no fruits to ripen!
All these different ideas and debates and different ways of doing things are interesting. Strictly by-the-book, follow-the-instructions gardening is awful! -
Message 32
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Hello sinbad1917
I'll try one more time to try and explain to you its the sun rising in the east that cooks the frost laden buds that causes failure in east facing soft fruit trees, by the time the sun shines on buds facing south the frost will have melted causing less or no damage to south facing buds. Do it your way if you like because you need to experiment and waste money killing fruit shrubs, just don't keep on spinning rubbish to suit your ill-informed viewpoint please. -
Message 33
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
I think it's a little unfair to call me "ill-informed" just because I try different gardening to you!
If you protect your soft fruit on an east-facing wall then you will avoid the problem of frost, and reap the rewards of later flowering, with better pollination and lower loss of blossom due to cold.
See, gardening is all about debates and different ideas and techniques, not necessarily "right" or "wrong"! And gardening TV is about ideas, not lectures! -
Message 34
Posted by Tigerredwood (U13742280) on Sunday, 18th October 2009
Hello sinbad1917
If you protect soft fruit on a south facing wall,,,,,Blah blah blah. Thats right centuries of gardeners have been doing it wrong all along all these years and they have been boring too. Toby Buckland the new ideas man is the way forward -
Message 35
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Reply to sinbad1917:
"If you protect your soft fruit on an east-facing wall then you will avoid the problem of frost, and reap the rewards of later flowering, with better pollination and lower loss of blossom due to cold"
Ok, so let's assume the peach flowers later and is pollinated. Do you think it possible, on an east-facing wall in Birmingham, that the tree will get the continental climate conditions (number of hours of sunshine and heat) that growing this fruit to ripe maturity requires?
I don't think so, that is unless a glasshouse is built around it and special lighting installed to imitate hours of sunshine and to generate heat.
This is not about debate - gardening is about plants and giving them the conditions they require to grow and fruit. That is what should be shown in the precious 30 mins of airtime currently allocated to GW. -
Message 36
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Monday, 19th October 2009
I agree. Ideas are great but should come in te hform of labour saving, money saving tips and information on new plants and prodcuts.
They should not be about encouraging people to spend a significant sum of money on a trained espalier apricot and then plant it in a dodgy situation without first having proved it in a trial on GW.
Beechgrove manages this very well. They have a shorter, cooler growing season on east Scotland yet last season managed to grow new potatoes better than the GW team at Berryfields because they recognised the need for shelter and warmth so grew them in polytunnels. They grow blueberries and other fruits and veg simultaneously in polytunnels, greenhouses and outdoor beds just to see what is possible and always give the results clearly so gardeners can decide if it's worth having a go themselves.
GW would do well to emulate this professionalism and the sense of fun to be had in gardening. -
Message 37
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Monday, 19th October 2009
That is exactly what GW are doing. Trying to adapt conditions to make a success of less-than-perfect sitations.
As I said, showing how to grow something in the ideal texbook conditions is irrelevant to most of us.
Many gardeners would say that it's perfectly possible to grow apricots on an east facing aspect. Some, including the holders of the National Collection of citrus, figs and vines even think that it's BETTER to grow apricots on an east facing site:
"Apricots are a rewarding fruit to grow, relatively undemanding apart from feed and water. A few basic rules are important for Apricot success.
Apricots like a well drained soil with a position in as much sun as possible, depending on the aspect of your garden you may select the spot which receives the most sun but beware, a south facing site may result in the Apricot tree blossoming earlier than usual, exposing the Apricot to frost, an east facing location or north slope is much more beneficial as they are usually sheltered from the prevailing winds and benefit from the early morning sun, We do not recommend a west facing site unless there is no other option. Apricot trees are very hardy to around -30f, but the blossom will be lost below 28f. Apricot blossom is self fertile but it helps to hand pollinate your Apricot tree with a small brush during blossom time." -
Message 38
Posted by PenylanSue (U13901201) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Did anyone notice the Geoff Hamilton cold frame on Friday's programme. I recognised it 'cause I made one and still have it even though the bottom is beginning to 'go' now.
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Message 39
Posted by londonplantmad (U2392946) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Its funny that even the untrained amateur gardener who experiments in their own garden can soon recognise that something is wrong if their plants are not growing properly. With our present team on GW they seem to go all out to make growing things as difficult as possible. Whats the point of that do we now wait to see it this expensive exercise with the apricot survives or fails their experiment. We will probably never know because like most of the series there is no continuity. Will we all be looking next year only to see it replaced by another plant and nothing mentioned about it. I think the site is too big its boring for us as we cannot see the development of it and there is no time in the 5 minutes we are there to do anything with any realism.
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Message 40
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Without commenting on past programmes - I'd like to see Joe putting his allotment to bed for winter, and what can be left to grow on etc
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Message 41
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Reply to sinbad1917:
"Some, including the holders of the National Collection of citrus, figs and vines even think that it's BETTER to grow apricots on an east facing site" citrus, figs and vines .. on an east-facing site in which part of the country? -
Message 42
Posted by Bluedoyenne (U2341157) on Monday, 19th October 2009
.... and of course apricots
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Message 43
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Monday, 19th October 2009
You'd think the holder of a National Collection of fruits would know a thing or two about fruit growing.
Yet they think east-facing is better for apricots. Not just effective, but actually BETTER than south facing.
They are based in Norfolk - so a few miles north of Birmingham.
Perhaps if some people gave GW and its presenters a chance rather than silly knee-jerk reactions, they might learn a thing or two. -
Message 44
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Monday, 19th October 2009
You'd think the holder of a National Collection of fruits would know a thing or two about fruit growing.
Yet they think east-facing is better for apricots. Not just effective, but actually BETTER than south facing.Â
So we can conclude from this, that Toby Buckland isn't as well informed as either of you. -
Message 45
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Monday, 19th October 2009
We can conclude that Toby Buckland, like many gardeners, thinks he can grow apricots on an east facing wall and wants to give it a try.
I might do it myself, just to come on here and boast about my bumper crop to all the stuck-in-their ways south-facers with their frost-bitten blossom with poor pollination...! -
Message 46
Posted by treechange (U14126469) on Monday, 19th October 2009
goodness gracious, can we rest this now?
I'm getting quite dizzy and will not know where my east/west/south/north facing wall on my sandy/clay/loam soil
is soon!
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Message 47
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Sorry, you just don't add up!
If you (and presumingly Toby Buckland) know that the preferred position to plant an apricot is on an 'east facing wall' WHY all the talk about it being an experiment?
My last word on the subject! -
Message 48
Posted by sinbad1917 (U13978774) on Monday, 19th October 2009
It's really quite simple.
Some of you think apricots MUST be grown on south-facing aspect.
Some very respected experts think they are best grown on east.
TB thinks they can grow on east and wants to give it a try. And I agree with that.
I think the major problem that some people have with GW is that they are stuck in their ways, in a strict "right" and "wrong" mindset, and simply won't accept any slight deviation from that. -
Message 49
Posted by jungle_jane (U1807090) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Did anyone notice the Geoff Hamilton cold frame on Friday's programme. I recognised it 'cause I made one and still have it even though the bottom is beginning to 'go' now.Â
I noticed that it was in the same spot Alys's brick "cold frame" once was. -
Message 50
Posted by Amazing (U7102651) on Monday, 19th October 2009
Don't think I'll bother planting any apricots this year. Only space I've got is north facing and I'm sure it won't grow there or will it?
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