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Gardeners' World 23rd October
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Message 1.Â
Posted by saima_host (U13967342) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Hi all
a clip from tonight's show is available at
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Message 2
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Please let it be better than the last two weeks.
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Message 3
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Please let it be better than the last two years
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Message 4
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Last in the series isn't it?
Like a faithful old dog now knackered, it should be humanely put to sleep. -
Message 5
Posted by ladynovicegardener (U5368058) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
They said tonight there are going to be 4 more episodes going out at 10pm. Next weeks will be a look back at what's happened through the year. Can't wait
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Message 6
Posted by ladynovicegardener (U5368058) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
After all, from what I've seen, all the half decent bits from the whole series could easily be put into a half hour show and there would still be time left over to see a viewers garden.
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Message 7
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Crikey the Lady with the Lake is Gardener of Year!
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Message 8
Posted by pinktequila (U2803141) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
The gardener of the year seemed a lot easier this year unless I missed something. Two tasks, look at the posh garden then a phone vote?
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Message 9
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Setting aside the GOTY section, I thought tonight's programme was bang on - I really enjoyed it. The pieces were longer, more indepth, with all the plant names given and clear close ups. Joe's bit on tool care was perfect (and put my tool care habits to shame...) and the piece on Sorbus from Ness was lovely. Loads of good tips on shrub planting from the RHS chap too.
There have been more subtle improvements as well - the graphics intro has gone, the fake banter has gone, the fuzzy filming has gone as of course have the cool wall and the 30 minute fix. The only shame now is that it's going off air as a live programme until - April? -
Message 10
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Is Toby Buckland colour blind? Surely nobody would tulip ballerina (pretty in pink) in a bed with a load of russet coloured wallflowers and some yellow euphorbia. Euw!
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Message 11
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
'You voted in your thousands'..... now there's a surprise!
And please dig out your summer bedding, Toby, not pull the tops off....or is this another experiment? -
Message 12
Posted by garrigillgirl (U14111305) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Trillium,
I really enjoyed this episode as well - I'm a novice gardener and a girl as well and had no idea how to sharpen and store my tools for the winter and that section was bang on....Alys and whatshisname were good too, factual and interesting - Tobes was much improved - more relaxed I thought - camera work was lovely - this episode had a different 'feel' to it somehow - not sure about the 'thousands' who voted for the GOTY garden - looked like somewhere I would have to pay to walk round - but if she does do all the planting and propagation herself well done to her - hopefully this is the way forward - liked Toby's dig (
)about the cocoa versus nightclub audience - methinks he's been on here!!! 
Looking forward to seeing what went on at Greenacres in the 10.00 slots - maybe this was the plan all along? -
Message 13
Posted by pinktequila (U2803141) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Apart from GArdener of the year I did find this week's programme one fo the best for a while.
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Message 14
Posted by michelle78 (U7007319) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
I really enjoyed tonights show save for the following points:
- TB still in it. Boo.
- hideous combination of tulips and wallflowers and euphorbias. DK, if he isn't colour blind he is just lacking in taste.
- GOTY competition.
However, I am really pleased for the lady who won GOTY, I thought she was lovely, enthusiastic and had a fabulous garden. Felt a bit sorry for Helen, first to last on the public vote and hers was a great garden too.
Things I enjoyed:
- Sorbus: my favourite tree so I was going to love this feature.
- Tulips at harlow carr. My favourite bulb, so ditto.
- Joe's tool care. Being a useless stereotypical girl who's never been shown that sort of thing, it was really useful.
- Planting - good to have a reminder about the basics, and stating the common sense about the fungi.
- overwintering. I may try that with my pelagoniums, due to be distracted my cuttings all died.
All in all, if Toby could just go away I think we are back to a watchable programme, and maybe next year they may make the GOTY a bit more taxing (even OH remarked how rubbish it was this year)?
Mich -
Message 15
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
<quote>pinktequila
The gardener of the year seemed a lot easier this year unless I missed something. Two tasks, look at the posh garden then a phone vote? <quote>
Must have played havoc with her nails putting all those sim cards in her phone, or did she get the butler to do it?
I did actually pick that one, I just would like to see the pictures of her driving the JCB.
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Message 16
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Best program for a while
Could we have the gentleman who did the Sorbus on every week.
Looking forward to the 10pm specials
At least the OH did not fall asleep this week so it must have been better -
Message 17
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Yes, I must echo what has already been said, both this weeks and last weeks programme have been far, far better than we've seen for a while.
If I had to nitpick I'd say that Joe's attempt at sharpening that exceedingly blunt hoe would have taken hours of patient rubbing with that stone. It needed a minute or two on a bench grinder before finishing off with a stone.
Weren't the tulips at RHS Harlow Carr stunning?
All in all though, a far better programme. -
Message 18
Posted by SparklyTwirler (U14172124) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
A very enjoyable show
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Message 19
Posted by mcspanna (U7544489) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Yes, I must echo what has already been said, both this weeks and last weeks programme have been far, far better than we've seen for a while.
If I had to nitpick I'd say that Joe's attempt at sharpening that exceedingly blunt hoe would have taken hours of patient rubbing with that stone. It needed a minute or two on a bench grinder before finishing off with a stone.
Weren't the tulips at RHS Harlow Carr stunning?
All in all though, a far better programme. Â
Couldn't agree more Paul... @ Joe's hoe...wonder if he's still there?! Big let down this week was the GOTY 'competition' (nothing to do with the winner) -
Message 20
Posted by Amazing (U7102651) on Friday, 23rd October 2009
Need I say anything. Will now read the comments.
The way he pulled those plants out at the beginning was disgraceful. -
Message 21
Posted by tattiebogle (U11728394) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
The best programme for a long long time. It was good to see Toby demonstrate ordinary seasonal tasks that we all do. How many of us are actually going to plant an apricot, or plant up a seaside garden?
What was wrong with the way he pulled up the summer bedding? He pulled out the plants, roots and all, shook the soil off the roots and threw them on the wheelbarrow. Just what I would do, or am I doing it all wrong? And the colour combinations - let's wait until we see them for real, I have seen some very unusual combinations which you would never think of putting together, but which look fantastic.
Although GOTY was a bit awkward, I was very pleased for the lady who won it and am looking forward to seeing her garden properly. It would be nice to see all the other gardens in more detail, too.
I hope they keep to this format next year, and also don't forget to follow up - we want to see how those beans are doing, and the spring bedding and the young trees. -
Message 22
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
Loved how Joe tested the sharpness of the blade by running his thumb along it! What a plonker.
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Message 23
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
There have been more subtle improvements as well - the graphics intro has gone, the fake banter has gone, the fuzzy filming has gone as of course have the cool wall and the 30 minute fix.Â
I can't deny that this is music to my ears. However, I'm astonished that no-one seems concerned regarding this apparent about-turn. The whole ethos of the 'new' GW, was that it was to be something new, and have particular attraction to a younger audience. It commenced in a blaze of self-congratulation from all concerned - both in front and behind the camera - which emphatically supported the new format. If there has indeed been the 'improvements' you detect, then clearly this means that all involved with the original concept were spectacularly wrong. However, I've never spotted anything from officialdom which would suggest that there has been any change of policy, therefore it is either one of those moments (which must occur) when irritations during a programme are at a minimum, or there has indeed been a major rethink. If it is the latter, what becomes of all those individuals who have strenuously supported the tosh that they started the season with - do they just soldier on as if nothing has happened? How can they retain any credibility? Do viewers really have faith in presenters who just float with the tide, and have no principles or standards? What about the 'new' following we are assured has emerged this year - will they be happy if there is a swing back to the older, traditional values? Personally, I'll wait to see if there is confirmation that the improvements (particularly the elimination of infantile camerawork) are long-term, before I consider peeking in again next year. Still, a rare moment of encouragement. -
Message 24
Posted by welshcol (U2301689) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
There have been more subtle improvements as well - the graphics intro has gone, the fake banter has gone, the fuzzy filming has gone as of course have the cool wall and the 30 minute fix. The only shame now is that it's going off air as a live programme until - April?Â
Agree with your comments Trillium and to "go off air" till April is unforgivable.
I would just add one more annoying item that is still in ie the out of use presenter "walking by".
When Alys was in the foreground doing her bit "Toby was walking by" when Toby was doing his bit "Joe was walking by" is this an appearance money fiddle?-more fundamentally why?-or does the director think we gardeners have such a limited attention span we have to be reminded who the presenters are by having them in the scenery. 
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Message 25
Posted by Colin (U2252951) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
>I've never spotted anything from officialdom which would suggest that there has been any change of policy<
LOL. This is the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú! Auntie can't make a mistake!
They've spent £100,000s of our money is suppressing the Balen Report ( which addressed Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú bias toward Arabs and aginst Israel. 'Fessing-up over GW seems unlikely -
Message 26
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
In the Guardian magazine today there was a picture of ballerina tulip which implied it was orange and red coloured which would fit in with the colour scheme of the wall flowers and euphorbia. Googling images confirms this. But I'm sure they showed a picture of ballerina being pink on the show last night. Or did I fall asleep again and dream it?
I thought Joe's bit on cleaning and sharpening tools was very handy. -
Message 27
Posted by SparklyTwirler (U14172124) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
JJ Carter - please don't bring your dubious political prejudices to our happy gardening forum.
Everyone adapts their ideas from time to time, the Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú and GW are no different -
Message 28
Posted by FellowCuckoo (U8523852) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
I quite enjoyed last night's GW too. Joe's bit on looking after tools was good- haven't seen that done on there before.
So, shall we start up our own GW on a Friday once again, just as we did last 'off air' time? I actually found it really interesting and helpful, with the added bonus of no fuzzy camera shots!
How about it, Trillium? I seem to remember you started us off each time with a 'What am I doing in my nursery', section. Can we start with a 'which seeds are you sowing in vermiculite now for overwintering'? -
Message 29
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
Sorry - back to the tulip combination. I just rewatched that bit on the I-player and it was tulip 'barcelona' that was pink one in with the oranges, reds and yellows. So TB is colour blind after all.
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Message 30
Posted by Madonplants (U5524817) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
Take away the GOTY bit, which for the sake of my health I just won't go into, I really enjoyed it. That is two reasonable programmes in a row now.
I loved the bit on one of my favourite trees, the Sorbus, just wished it could have been longer with maybe more varieties shown.
Other than the GOTY, the only bit I thought could have been better, was when Toby was doing his border bit. He told us he had improved the soil and added some Bonemeal and I know it's being picky, but I just wished I could have seen him do it, like Geoff would have done. -
Message 31
Posted by everhopeful (U11289037) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
I thought the show this week was just right for new gardeners and the tool sharpening bit was a good reminder for the rest of us.I do think they ae trying to improve but will never please evryone.
As far as the winner of GOTY that certainly failed miserably but I dont like to read messages being personal towards the winner about her appearance, that smacks of sour grapes and suggests that well spoken and well dressed people shouldnt be good gardeners. Come on you guys theres no need for that. EH -
Message 32
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
FellowCuckoo,
I'd forgotten about the 'Virtual GW' threads but yes, why not? I'll open one next Friday - there's certainly plenty to cover this time of year and we'll see how it goes from there. -
Message 33
Posted by Joe_the_Gardener (U3478064) on Saturday, 24th October 2009
Blimey Ken, aren't you ever satisfied? They've done what you want and you're still complaining! Do you want heads on a gibbet?
For what it's worth I thought this weeks prog was much better - brisk and to the point (apart from GOTY which should have been called Gardener of the Last Ten Years), and well filmed.
Joe -
Message 34
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Monday, 26th October 2009
Yes Ken. It really was much better. Go on - give it a go next week.
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Message 35
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Monday, 26th October 2009
It ain't /that/ good, Ken!
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Message 36
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Monday, 26th October 2009
Blimey Ken, aren't you ever satisfied?
They've done what you want and you're still complaining! Do you want heads on a gibbet?Â
Hi Joe, As I'm sure you know, I am only asking the questions that everyone should be asking. Is this a temporary state of affairs, or are the entire team now retracting everything we've been fed and had to swallow this past year? I wouldn't have thought that this is an unreasonable question. The 'new' GW was the way ahead, endorsed by all involved, and now I'm told we're getting back to what the programme used to be. The new 'younger' following are surely going to be disappointed.
I probably would like to see their heads on a gibbet - as long as I don't have to watch Toby knocking it up in 30 minutes.
The Cycling Gardener - Oh, well maybe, we'll see. It's certainly hellish having nothing (well, almost nothing) to moan about.
David K. - You've put me back to square one - cancel the above positive message. -
Message 37
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Monday, 26th October 2009
There was one bit I found perplexing - Toby mentioned something about all year round colour, and we were treated to about 10 seconds of an aerial view of someone's garden - and that was it?
Was this some kind of 'viewer's garden' spot? Or something left over from some other time and used as a gap filler? Very odd, I thought, or wasn't I paying attention? -
Message 38
Posted by Goldilocks (U2169760) on Monday, 26th October 2009
I just could not believe the winner did all her own gardening. That landscaping will have cost a bomb. Makes it unfair for those who don't have so much dosh.
The experts put her in third place I think. -
Message 39
Posted by joanybird (U11052594) on Monday, 26th October 2009
Hello Trillium
I think it was just a (rather odd) taster, and it's going to be one of the specials at 10pm. The others being Carol's 'pupils', Joe's garden design, and an 'overview' of Greenacres through the year.
Jb -
Message 40
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Monday, 26th October 2009
Goldilocks - read back a bit. I've done something very similar.
Landscaping a field takes a couple of days with a bulldozer. If the ponds are lined they will take a day or so to do and some helping hands from friends or family to unroll the liner. Digging the beds over is a job for OH with a tiller or rotivator.
I have done all the planting in my garden and I also do all the sowing, pricking out, planting on, cuttings, divisions, pruning etc..
I really don't see why so many people should think it impossible for one woman to achieve so much. You're being very ungracious and exceedingly patronising when you underestimate women this way. All 4 women in that contest created beautiful gardens as have Beth Chatto and many more.
The man, of course, went in for major construction and carpentry and some flipping jungle type plants which showed no feel for his local environment, flora or fauna or the plants that would naturally do well in the soil and situation. -
Message 41
Posted by dottiesue (U14136301) on Monday, 26th October 2009
I agree with all those who thought this weeks GW was good, and a return to the old format. I also liked the bit on sharpening tools - I usually just put them away at the end of november and expect them to be just as good the next year (I haven't been gardening long enough to notice the difference - shame on me
) -
Message 42
Posted by Joe_the_Gardener (U3478064) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
Ken,
I just don't think there's anything to be gained by second-guessing people. You don't happen to like the programme, other people do, and that's pretty much all there is to say about it.
It's not the first TV prog that's been controversial and won't be the last. Surprisingly, producers are only human beings like the rest of us, and they don't always capture the mood of the whole nation.
Joe -
Message 43
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
Producers are, however, paid to be sufficiently well informed about tehir subject and audience to make suitable programmes and this lot have been failing for a long time now.
Having said that, I very much enjoyed the visit to Harlow Carr for the tulips and Ness for the sorbus. Both were well filmed and informative as well as enjoyable and I for one would welcome more such expertise on the show.
TB is still slapdash and shoddy in his work. I wish he'd shown just how much garden compost and bonemeal to put on that bed before planting his wallflowers so that less experienced gardeners would see, rather than having to guess, what he meant. His colour scheme was particularly scary so I think the sooner he gets advice from a colourist about complemetary and toning colours the better. I'm also not convinced that wallflowers are sufficiently young and trendy for the alleged new target audience. Can't stand them myself.
I enjoyed Joe's bit on cleaning tools especially as it looked to be something novel for him.
I thought the presentation of the marks and the award for GOTY was very badly handled and rushed but thought the winner was gracious to her fellow competitors and clearly delighted and surprised to have won. I hope it doesn't end up becoming a poisoned chalice for her given all the negative remarks on another thread.
On the whole - could do better but at least it seems to have stopped getting worse. -
Message 44
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
I'm also not convinced that wallflowers are sufficiently young and trendy for the alleged new target audience. Can't stand them myself.Â
Obs - I'm so glad I'm not the only one who can't stand them. They make me cringe. Just about every roundabout around here has had hundreds of the things bashed in with accompanying pansies. I just can't see any beauty or delicacy in their flower, form or colour. -
Message 45
Posted by David K (U2221642) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
Diverse opinion is great, isn't it!
I love em, childhood memories & gorgeous fragrance on a damp evening. -
Message 46
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
Yes David. I'm always amazed that I can go about my daily business when suddenly, out of the blue, a scent stops me in my tracks and all the lovely childhood associations that go with it come flooding back. The musky aroma of cloves that you get from pinks is is a particularly special one for me.
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Message 47
Posted by SparklyTwirler (U14172124) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
I love the smell of wallflowers too. I don't find TB slapdash in the least - he is a vast improvement on the last presenter, at least he doesn't talk down to people ( including his team mates )
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Message 48
Posted by Goldilocks (U2169760) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
Obelixx, I can understand you having a different view to mine as to how much it cost to landscape the garden, and whether it could have been done by the winner, but what gave you the impression I was being sexist? I would have made exactly the same points if it had been a man. Nothing I wrote would suggest otherwise, so I wonder if you haven't just revealed a feminist 'chip' on your shoulders?
I may be imagining it but that 'pond' looked more like a lake, and the bridges / walkways looked as if they had been commissioned and installed by experts, more like what you might expect at Chatsworth rather than in an amateur gardener. I got the strong impression that a lot more money had been spent on structure than on the other gardens, with the possible exception of the tropical garden, and in a way that very few of us could match even if we had the will, and that was my main point. What message does it send out to the audience in terms of aspiration? I think the experts recognised this in their voting, but the armchair viewers voted for the 'wow' factor, IMHO. -
Message 49
Posted by Paul N (U6451125) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
"The man, of course, went in for major construction and carpentry and some flipping jungle type plants which showed no feel for his local environment, flora or fauna or the plants that would naturally do well in the soil and situation"
My favourite garden, actually -
Message 50
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Tuesday, 27th October 2009
Goldilocks - I have no chips.
I have, with some labouring help from my husband and a good start from a man with with a bulldozer, created a large pond for drainage; erected fences, trellises, obelisks; laid paths and lawns; built a bottle wall; planted hedges, trees, shrubs, bulbs and perennials; created a potager and fruit garden and so on.
There is nothing I know of in the rules of GOTY that limits the size of one's garden or budget. If jungle man can have extensive wooden decks and levels why cannot this lady have a wooden bridge, whether home made or bought?
What counts for me in GOTY is what the contestants have done with their garden space and the means available and whether or not it works as an attractive, sustainable garden. These may not be everyone's criteria but I do feel it is churlish and petty to criticise a winner just because he or she has more garden and maybe more time and money to spend on it than you have.
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