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Gardeners World 8 July - Waltham Place
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by garyhobson (U11055016) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
I thought that this week's program was a good program for several reasons.
At the start, I enjoyed Carol's piece about hardy geraniums. I have lots of these plants in my own garden, for the simple reason that they one of the few plants that thrive on clay.
The report from Waltham Place was particularly interesting - bindweed, ground elder, and docks, growing among the flowers, and controlling grassy weeds by pulling the tops off.
And Monty was doing something slightly similar (though not as extreme) in a part of his own garden.
This style of gardening has many advantages, particularly in terms of ecology and sustainability. Though it's not quite as simple as pulling up the odd bit of grass.
It's about understanding how vigorous various plants are, and how they form communities, and what degree of control and intervention might be required. This is an important subject where cutting-edge gardening programs, like GW, have a role to play, bringing these ideas to the public, opening up attitudes, and covering the issues involved, which are wide-ranging. There are several books by Piet Oudolf, including two co-authored with Henk Gerritsen, the architect of Waltham Place. I think that Monty and Carol share a similar outlook on this subject.
Also, I liked the feel of this week's GW. It was relaxed, a bit like the gardens and plants themsleves. The editing and music were unobtrusive.
Several cameo appearances throughout the program by Monty's dog too.
There is a school of thought that says there should be gardening programs for novices, and separate gardening programs for experienced gardeners. I don't necessarily agree with that idea. Even if people know virtually nothing about gardens, it is instructive to be exposed to serious gardens, and to see and hear serious gardeners talking about the subject. -
Message 2
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Ok programme this week. Don't find it inspirational any more though
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Message 3
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Ok programme this week. Don't find it inspirational any more though
Ìý
Nice dog!
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Message 4
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Aaaarrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Message 5
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
I agree on all points Gary especially Carol's input.
I gave GW a good shellacing last year and thought it was deserved. Having been a critic of Monty over time at the beginning of the year said I would give both him and GW a chance to prove themselves this year knowing a gardener in his own garden becomes a different person.
In my opinion the programme has improved 100% the production also and as for Monty he is now a must see for me and I, even when given the choice, watched Monty instead of AT now that is something I did not think possible.
Well done all for listening then changing and making a massive improvement with GW long may it last.
Frank. -
Message 6
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Can we go back to Berryfields and actually have a programme that as some gardening in it,I am sick of visiting some toff's garden every 5 minutes.
Also the fact that Monty's garden only colour content seems to have arrived from accidents involving poppy.s and a yellow weed.
Like AT said in the first episode of LYG 98% of all gardens in the UK are small back gardens all of which are ingnored by Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú except for when the licence fee needs paying.... -
Message 7
Posted by Lelliegoggs (U14833611) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
I've recently been watching old GW programmes on Blighty, most of them are from Berryfields, and I find the old programmes are better than the current series. However, I did see a bit where Monty was saying how much he liked green flowers, which probably explains the lack of colour of Long Meadow.
I'm red-green colour blind, so to have green flowers amongst green foliage is hopeless for me, the flowers just get completely lost. -
Message 8
Posted by groundelder (U11750698) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Thoroughly enjoyed the programme - I never rated Monty much but he is very easy on the ear and the eye and I am warming to his easy, laid back approach.
Still room for improvement but definitely on the up. -
Message 9
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Ambulance to Lowena's house please!!
She's choking on somethiing I think! -
Message 10
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
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Message 11
Posted by trialittledream (U14419792) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Totally agree. Great programe
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Message 12
Posted by Ken Smart (U1158196) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
Overall, I also thought this was an excellent programme.
I enjoyed all of Monty Don's contributions. A few of his subjects had little relevance to me, but I still enjoyed looking at them. Carol was excellent from her own garden, but reverted to type a little for her second offering. Joe and Rachel were watchable, but there are many others who could have made a better fist of their segments. I'm certain they're a lovely couple, but Joe always strikes me as being a bit 'wooden', and Rachel has seldom any original thoughts to offer the viewer, and plays largely on her appearance.
GW is off air again next week, and (apart from giving Monty another break) it really is difficult to justify this. There seems to be another 'food' programme appearing everytime we turn our back, but the nation's main gardening programme is discarded for just about any flimsy reason. I've no problem with the Proms, but can't accept that GW has to be jettisoned to accomodate them. I can even accept Monty Don getting a breather, but to simply abandon the gardening programme is a disgrace - even if we are by now accustomed to this shoddy treatment. -
Message 13
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Saturday, 9th July 2011
I found last nights program Ok and I did learn something. I did not learn anything on LYG.
I have also been watching repeats of GW from Berryfields and find this much more relevant to my garden.
It is odd that we had 2 hours straight of gardening last night but nothing next week. With all these channels , i-player and series recording you would think that they could sneak some gardening in somewhere. Will have to watch new program on channel 5. -
Message 14
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
<quote>Also the fact that Monty's garden only colour content seems to have arrived from accidents involving poppy.s and a yellow weed.</quote?
I suppose it is called choices, I have garden on all four sides of the house and two of them are green, one green all the time, one colours up in late autumn and early in the year, one is subdued colour and one I call my mad Picasso is a riot of colour. The point is I sit in the green side with my glass in hand enjoying the scents and gentle effect on the eye, of course it is the mad part that gets all the comments.
As with most I like to nose around other peoples garden and those "posh" gardens employ people, gardeners are reasonably well paid in this day and age so the "posh" ones add to the local economics.
Again if it went back to Berryfields they would lose me "choices" that garden did absolutely nothing for me apart from getting me mad enough to throw cushions at the TV every time a garden tool was thrown down and left or a plant chucked into the ground and left without water. The mysterious banks and borders that appeared without explanation and some of the blatant silliness of the presentation the false hail fellow well met thingee, I switched off as did many people and hoped this year would be better, it is 100% better that being only my opinion of course others have choices.
Frank. -
Message 15
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
Was the throwing tools not in Greenacres?
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Message 16
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
Yes it was. I often throw tools down, I'm afraid, and also often leave them out for days on end.........didn't realise that it wasn't something that everyone did. Just me and Toby then??!! ( embarrassed smiley, slinks off to norty step)
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Message 17
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
I wonder if Monty only has the one pair of those baggy blue trousers? He seems to wear them all the time, not just for gardening but when he visits the shows as well. Perhaps he has several pairs and rotates them? I don't know whether Monty is getting thinner or those pants are getting baggier - maybe he needs a few juicy steaks with all that veg to bulk him up a bit.
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Message 18
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
I will confess to having 2 pairs of identical 'gardening' trousers. The main reason is that not only are they comfy and non iron but they do not gape when I bend over. My garden is heavily overlooked so an essential piece of clothing, I would assume that Mr Don would have a similar explanation.
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Message 19
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
Was the throwing tools not in Greenacres?Ìý Yes but then I was not a happy bunny with Berryfields either, that long border that never looked like anything much and the tropical garden that had more shade than my north wall.
Any one on the naughty step may now leave.
And so sorry but I am one of those nerds who clean and oil their gardening tools before hanging them on their own hooks on the wall.
Why? because as a young apprentice I had to buy my own tools and learnt to respect them.
Frank. -
Message 20
Posted by elouisa (U14293070) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
I thought that this week's program was a good program for several reasons.
At the start, I enjoyed Carol's piece about hardy geraniums. I have lots of these plants in my own garden, for the simple reason that they one of the few plants that thrive on clay.
The report from Waltham Place was particularly interesting - bindweed, ground elder, and docks, growing among the flowers, and controlling grassy weeds by pulling the tops off.
And Monty was doing something slightly similar (though not as extreme) in a part of his own garden.
This style of gardening has many advantages, particularly in terms of ecology and sustainability. Though it's not quite as simple as pulling up the odd bit of grass.
It's about understanding how vigorous various plants are, and how they form communities, and what degree of control and intervention might be required. This is an important subject where cutting-edge gardening programs, like GW, have a role to play, bringing these ideas to the public, opening up attitudes, and covering the issues involved, which are wide-ranging. There are several books by Piet Oudolf, including two co-authored with Henk Gerritsen, the architect of Waltham Place. I think that Monty and Carol share a similar outlook on this subject.
Also, I liked the feel of this week's GW. It was relaxed, a bit like the gardens and plants themsleves. The editing and music were unobtrusive.
Several cameo appearances throughout the program by Monty's dog too.
There is a school of thought that says there should be gardening programs for novices, and separate gardening programs for experienced gardeners. I don't necessarily agree with that idea. Even if people know virtually nothing about gardens, it is instructive to be exposed to serious gardens, and to see and hear serious gardeners talking about the subject.
Ìý I thought the Gardener's World programme on 8th July was the best so far. Monty comes over as a keen, interested, knowledgeable gardener and apart from Rachel de Thame, who I think is just eye candy, the whole programme was excellent, so good I have kept it on my hard disc for future reference. -
Message 21
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
What Monty wears is down to the image him and those represent him want to create for him,it's more commercial than anything else.
Having said that I don't think there is anything wrong with that.... -
Message 22
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
Frank you must have broken in to a sweat when you saw Monty's rusty machette in the episode about making compost......
PPP. -
Message 23
Posted by nooj (U13729031) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
I just find it refreshing that some posters are more interested in Monty's trousers than I am....
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Message 24
Posted by David K (U14115317) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
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Message 25
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
If I may bring things back to the topic- have just had a 150 minute tv catch-up- Beechgrove, Gardeners World, Lovey Our Garden and Get Up And Grow- all a bit different- but from a did I learn anything point of view- Beechgrove wins hands down- GW was interesting and entertaining for the most part-Lovey our Garden remains in a bad fourth place-and Get Up And Grow showed what you can do with a small space but quite a bit of money!!
On Lovey Our Garden - if ,as seems this was filmed last summer, and knowing itv's fixation with viewing figures what are the chances of this returning? surely that decision has already been made - unless anybody knows different- why wasn't such a show screened in April/May- at least at that time it would have been appropiate- but I just cant see who the audience target is.
GW seems a much better beast than earlier in the series- Monty is so much more relaxed -(I must get some blue trousers)- but did anyone notice Carole's dirty fingernails- does she not know that these are not sexy and she should wear "marigolds"-she is obviously not watching the competition !!
Geoff -
Message 26
Posted by Trillium (U2170869) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
Dirty fingernails are de rigeur for a full-time gardener. As are very calloused, strong hands - the best tools I have.
One very good friend of mine is required to wear two pairs of gloves when gardening so that her hands are perfectly clean in the evening (fastidious husband). When they came round recently and I was planting with bare hands of course she blurted out 'See, Sue doesn't wear any gloves!' He was unmoved...
I do wear gloves for thorny jobs, to add grip for very heavy work and in winter to enable my hands to keep working (Reynaud's syndrome) . But not otherwise. -
Message 27
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Sunday, 10th July 2011
Frank you must have broken in to a sweat when you saw Monty's rusty machette in the episode about making compost......
PPP.Ìý Pumkin, you should see my pickaxe, it may only be used once in a blue moon but has scars of every job it ever did. My own Machete acka 18 inch first world war bayonet is now beyond repair and unfortunately my own army bayonet was round with grooves in it and the fighting knife too short for chopping things in the garden into compost.
With some things you need to rethink your servicing thereof.
Nice to see you still on here Sue and straight to the relevent point as usual, for those who do not know Trillium she certainly handles a spade as it should be handles.
Frank. -
Message 28
Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Monday, 11th July 2011
I often throw tools down, I'm afraid, and also often leave them out for days on end.........didn't realise that it wasn't something that everyone did. Just me and Toby then??!!Ìý
No, Lowena, it's not just you and Toby. In fact mine are often where they fall/get thrown for more than a few days - I'm constantly losing them -
Message 29
Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Monday, 11th July 2011
Dirty fingernails are de rigeur for a full-time gardener. As are very calloused, strong hands - the best tools I have.Ìý
I always start out with gloves on, but there are so many things in the garden that I just cannot do with them on, so they never last very long.
It's not just fingernails with me, though. My friend starts working in the garden looking immaculate - and finishes the day looking the same - with gloves still on. I start the day looking a bit rough and then go in (usually in mud up to my knees, to hear my husband say "Here comes my little mudlark". I just don't know how she does it.
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Message 30
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Monday, 11th July 2011
I often throw tools down, I'm afraid, and also often leave them out for days on end.........didn't realise that it wasn't something that everyone did. Just me and Toby then??!!Ìý
No, Lowena, it's not just you and Toby. In fact mine are often where they fall/get thrown for more than a few days - I'm constantly losing themÌý
Hooray, I'm glad I'm not alone
Actually, I belong to several Message Boards and know that many people are careless with their tools, and, does it really matter in the greater scheme of things - they're not expensive and we don't live in wartime rationing, -
Message 31
Posted by the cycling gardener (U2350416) on Monday, 11th July 2011
Actually, I belong to several Message Boards and know that many people are careless with their tools, and, does it really matter in the greater scheme of things - they're not expensive and we don't live in wartime rationing, Ìý
It matters if you work in other people's gardens. I soon learned to take care of my tools after losing a couple of pairs of secateurs, a hand fork and trowel. Annoyingly, many tools are designed to blend into their surroundings making it virtually impossible to find them particularly when they make it into the compost bin. I've found the solution is to spray paint the handles bright yellow.
Returning to Friday's programme - I thoroughly enjoyed it, particularly the items about geraniums and grasses. A favourite part of GW is the garden visits, looking at their design, the plant associations and hearing the philosophy behind their creation and maintenance. My husband isn't into gardening or ogling other peoples gardens so opportunities for a good butchers at gardens open to the public are few and far between unless I can craftily sneak one in, in combination with an interesting historic building or arrange a garden deviation while I'm out on business.
Monty is doing a splendid job and I thought Friday's offering was particularly good. -
Message 32
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
I often throw tools down, I'm afraid, and also often leave them out for days on end.........didn't realise that it wasn't something that everyone did. Just me and Toby then??!!Ìý
No, Lowena, it's not just you and Toby. In fact mine are often where they fall/get thrown for more than a few days - I'm constantly losing themÌý
Hooray, I'm glad I'm not alone
Actually, I belong to several Message Boards and know that many people are careless with their tools, and, does it really matter in the greater scheme of things - they're not expensive and we don't live in wartime rationing,Ìý
There are no laid down rules about it, each to their own, a long spell in the military taught me that everything had its place, look after your tools (weapons) they will look after you when needed.
My wheel barrow gets trundled around with heavy or long tools, with buckets, green bags and a trug of hand tools ready for use, each returned before picking up the next or stuffed in a pocket, (those baggy pants do come in useful dont they Monty) it is more pride in having the best tools well maintained after all you would not think of letting your washer oven or hoover carry on forever not cleaned or maintained would you, "err" on the other hand some would I assume.
Wheeling the barrow back and disposing of the bags and buckets then cleaning oiling and hanging up the tools takes no time at all, still that is me and it takes all kinds to make this world tick.
Nothing gets my back up more than watching trained gardeners throwing tools about as last years GW and tools, good ones are not cheap, buy cheap you get cheap.
Frank. -
Message 33
Posted by PoppyPetals (U14930333) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
I thought the programme was excellent when Monty was presenting. He is lovely !!!!! Swoon...!
Get rid of Rachel and Joe. Keep Carol but give her some Valium when she visits garden (that gushing and arm waving it embarassing). I think Sarah Raven would make an excellent co-presenter..
Love your garden is watchable, but very lightweight and not very informative.... -
Message 34
Posted by Ariadne Knickerbocker (U4534559) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Enough about men and their tools already!! Most of us don't equate garden tools with weapons of mass destruction - apart from the trowel. The trowel can be used flat-side down to smash snails with and then sharp end to cut slugs in half. Actually a small garden hand fork is useful for slugs too as you can get several at once by skewering them on each prong.
Monty is lovely isn't he? He is looking quite weathered these days and all the better for it.
Has anyone visited Waltham Place? -
Message 35
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
The best way is to get the Barby going then spear the snails and slugs coat them in Yogurt mixed with herbs and spices three minutes on the barby with fresh bread lovely!
just do not ask me to your barby.
Frank. -
Message 36
Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
My wheel barrow gets trundled around with heavy or long tools, with buckets, green bags and a trug of hand tools ready for use,
Wheeling the barrow back and disposing of the bags and buckets then cleaning oiling and hanging up the tools takes no time at all,Ìý
Ah but - would you do this if your garden was on 2 very different levels, and you had to keep going up and down 14 steps - like wot I do. My biggest problem isn't looking after my tools, it's going back up the steps to get something - then trying to remember what I went up for
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Message 37
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
My wheel barrow gets trundled around with heavy or long tools, with buckets, green bags and a trug of hand tools ready for use,
Wheeling the barrow back and disposing of the bags and buckets then cleaning oiling and hanging up the tools takes no time at all,Ìý
Ah but - would you do this if your garden was on 2 very different levels, and you had to keep going up and down 14 steps - like wot I do. My biggest problem isn't looking after my tools, it's going back up the steps to get something - then trying to remember what I went up forÌý
I did see something like that when I stayed at the forest of Dean a few weeks ago. They had put in a gentle sloping path across the bank yet still kept some steps for straight up then he built retaining walls and levelled the garden in steps. You could work off the paths as raised beds or stand on a flat area.
It had been hard work at first but it was certainly worth it as it was a lovely garden.
As an engineer I love problems.
Frank. -
Message 38
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
I've been away so have just been catching up on GW, Beechgrove and LYG.
I thoroughly enjoyed GW except for having to FF Joe and that lady. I do enjoy the relaxed pace of GW these days but have to wonder how relevant it is to keep showing gardening on the flat and with nearly all the borders behind box hedges, even though I like that style and have one such bed myself.
Having just spent 10 days in England and spent 3 days helping my newly widowed sister-in-law with her garden I have been horrified by the price of even ordinary plants. I found a lovely oriental poppy in the half price "rescue" corner but still as much as I would pay here in Belgium at full price. Long live Carol and all her propagation tips.
I enjoy seeing Monty's projects and plants and techniques but I'd like to see more on how to plan and design smaller gardens, sloping gardens and tricky shapes and situtations and this could be done via visits to such gardens. If AT can find them, surely the Beeb researchers can too and then we could see them in more depth.
I find that Beechgrove is unbeatable for the amount of information and variety it packs in to half an hour and yet without seeming hurried or superficial. The fact sheets are also excellent.
LYG is a bit pappy but at least it shows the different styles you can achieve in a normal sized plot so may give a boost to viewers' imaginations and prompt them to something a bit more diverse than a lawn with straight, narrow borders. I just wish they didn't expect everyone to be able to throw money at their garden to solve problems and achieve a beautiful result. -
Message 39
Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
As an engineer I love problems.Ìý
Frank
There are a number of problems with having a garden on different levels. Either side of the steps are 2 lawns - very sloping lawns, which when wet, are lethal. Knowing I love growing lots of plants from seed, my husband 'kindly' decided to cut 2 more large flower beds into these lawns (like I didn't have enough to do). I still haven't got to the lower level 'the fast way' - but I think it's only a matter ot time. -
Message 40
Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
I find that Beechgrove is unbeatable for the amount of information and variety it packs in to half an hour and yet without seeming hurried or superficial.Ìý
I agree with this. I thought at one time that it spent too much time on veg, but I reckon the 'veg bit' is more in proportion now. I love the trials they do, as they've covered a lot of things that I've grown from seed. -
Message 41
Posted by Pumpkin_Patch_Paul (U14565900) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Trails more input from different gardeners and back to Greenacres or Berryfields would make a better GW for me.
Beechgrove I would say puts GW to shame.
The Â鶹¹ÙÍøÊ×Ò³Èë¿Ú may as well just re-run this years GW episodes next year because it is all going to be the samey, samey. one man and is garden show again,same ideas same plants same opinion....... -
Message 42
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
I like the way on Beechgrove they gently remind you to do things like sow biennials.
Does covering with fleece make a big difference? -
Message 43
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
It does if you're up north and/or exposed to cold winds and rain. It gives a degree or two of protection so plants get on faster.
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Message 44
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Thanks, I still have a few biennials setting seed so I may try fleece to catch up.
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Message 45
Posted by happytobyfan (U13663471) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Does covering with fleece make a big difference?Ìý
It certainly does. My other 'hobby' (for winter) is sewing. A couple of years ago I bought some industrial nylon from a fabric mill, and made some cloches using this and lining them with fleece (but doubled up a few times). It keeps the fleece dry - and snowless!!, and everything I've covered over the past couple of years has come through fine (even tender fuchsias). Knowing now what happened to plants last year, that I didn't think would have a problem with the winter weather - I'm thinking of covering my whole b....y garden with it this year -
Message 46
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Wednesday, 27th July 2011
HTF and Obelixx
After your comments that fleece does make a difference I covered some late sown Nicotianas with some fleece and I am quite surprised how quickly they have grown compared to some other Nicotianas. I might now cover some more plants that do not like our sun free summer, to see if they may flower this year. I have read that someone is recommending covering your tomatoes in fleece if the weather does not pick up.
Thanks Kate -
Message 47
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Wednesday, 27th July 2011
Been 25c here for the last week and strong sunshine :/
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Message 48
Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Thursday, 28th July 2011
Lowena you must be a lucky talisman, after 3 days of cloud the sun has come out.
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Message 49
Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Thursday, 28th July 2011
I do my best
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