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self sufficiency

• Message 1. 

  Posted by rottenapple (U2290535) on Monday, 26th April 2010

  forgive me if some of my questions seem a bit stupid but im relatively new to growing own produce. Id like to know that once you have a crop rotation, year in year out, does it reach a point when you dont rely on buying seed and plants.
  
  FOr example im growing potatoes, if i keep some of the ones ive grown, then plant them again, the i will have more next year, and i keep doing the same. Or is that not how it works? Would the crop decline because im using the same seed each time from the same plant?
  
  Does anyone here not have to buy any seeds, because they use all their own?
  
  I have books on the subject, eventially i want a smallholding as ive done a course in agriculture. But my aim is to obviously reduce my financial outgoings and maximise crops.
  
  thoughts and opinions most welcome.

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by malanD (U7337386) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  We all have to start learning from somewhere and someone, so its OK to ask.
  
  Crop rotation doesn't mean saving seeds for next year. It means you don't grow the same veg in the same place the following year, you rotate your crop. I could write more but I am sure someone will.
  
  Some seeds are easy to save. I always save marigold, pease, runner/french beans, mooli (white long radish)and seeds from pumpkin/buuternut sq/melon bought from Tesco. I should save seeds from other veg too but I don't.

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Saravisiae (U2247962) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  This site has a lot of useful info:
  
  I only save runner, broad and dwarf french bean seeds at the moment. This is my first year of using saved parsnip seeds and they are not up yet so can't say how well it'll work- I do have lots of autumn self seeded little parsnips all over the place though so know they're fertile! With carrots and parsnips it is a bit trickier because they only flower in the second year of growing which takes up your growing space, although you only need to leave one or two plants. Obviously you need to have non F1 hybrid seed to start with and if the plants are pollinated by some other variety you may get odd combinations and poor crops.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by BaraGwenith (U14257539) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  I know loads of people on this site will say it works for them but IMO it is not worth the risk of saving your own with potatoes because they are prone to so many diseases. Certified seed potatoes are grown in specific areas and are certified disease-free, though that doesn't mean they won't get blight.
  Take care if you try to save seeds of squash and courgettes if you are growing several varieties as they are very promiscuous.
  I can endorse the real seeds site as I have been using them for several years with good results.
  Trouble with saving your own is that often the crops take up valuable space while they mature, when it might be better to use the space for another crop.
  Frankly, the cost of good seed is little compared with the benefits. Just remember that some companies are very good at marketing; do not be entirely taken in by their claims.
  

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Saravisiae (U2247962) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  Just wanted to add, I've done quite well with saving garlic bulbs to re-plant. I got the first cloves 4 years ago from my Dad who got some from a farmer in France the year before and grew it that year. It has got no worse and possibly better in those 4 years.

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by rottenapple (U2290535) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010

  THanks for the replies. MalanD sorry but you have misunderstood my post, not your fault as I didnt word it very well.
  
  I know about crop rotations as Im studying agriculture, but thats more combinable crops. So im not great on crop rotation of vege but I do have a book on that.
  
  What really made me think about this was watching a programme called 'Victorian kitchen garden'. It seemed they were way very self sufficient in their methods.
  
  WHat I meant was that id like to use seeds from my crops im growing for the next year. I dont mean about using seeds from fruit and vege from supermarket. Im very anti supermarket and want to grow my produce traditionaly with minimum expenditure. However I will pay more if it means not buying from supermarkets.
  
  I would like to use the real seed company, as it sounds like a more traditional way of growing. Will take on board the other points that you have said.

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• Message 7

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  Posted by lorraine (U14436550) on Monday, 3rd May 2010

  hello I have for the first year ordered seed from the real seed company Every seed I planted has germinated I have used other companies but found them not so good I have had to replant they also say that you can collect seed from the plants as well so it is worth giving them a go I only waited for a few days for them

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Playingtimeaddedon (U14150224) on Monday, 3rd May 2010

  The trouble with saving seeds is that, with cross pollination, they do not 'come true to type'. That is especially true with something like runner beans where you can sow white beans, but if you save some pods for seed, they may not be white and may not produce beans of the same quality.
  
  

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by rottenapple (U2290535) on Monday, 3rd May 2010

  so if i use a seed from this years crop for next year, there is no guarantee that the seeds will germinate and then grow into a healthy plant that produces a good crop?
  
  How does cross polination work?

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by Happy Violas (U13861656) on Monday, 3rd May 2010

  Cross pollination is when a related plant pollinates your crop and you get a hybrid formed which is unlike both parents. It's pretty basic stuff which should be covered in your agriculture course at some point. Personally I feel as though I put so much effort into growing veg for a relatively low cost of bought seed (some packets last for several years) that it's worth buying them. As much as anything it's great fun perusing the seed catalogues each autumn and planning what to grow the following year!

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• Message 11

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  Posted by koala_girl (U12702629) on Tuesday, 4th May 2010

  I have been growing "painted lady" runner beans in my garden for four years and only bought seeds the first year. Each year I leave a couple of pods on the plant to ripen and keep the seeds for sowing the following year. Nobody else around here grows runner beans so they have kept true to type.
  
  Apart from that, I also save the seeds from my peas. I can't remember what variety they were to start off with, but they were so nice that I wanted to keep growing them.
  
  Garlic is another good one. I keep some of the fattest cloves from my harvest in August to replant in November.

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by Saravisiae (U2247962) on Wednesday, 5th May 2010

  I've never bought runner or dwarf frnch bean seeds- I just got them from my Dad who has been saving seed for decades. We both grow them on allotments where lots of others also grow these kinds of beans. You do occasionially get some odd things like strangely coloured/patterned seeds and runner beans with white flowers from parents with red flowers but they always taste and grow just fine.

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• Message 13

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  Posted by Lokelani (U8896212) on Wednesday, 5th May 2010

  I had great success growing chilli plants from supermarket fruit, but suspect I was just lucky that year. I guess you never know if it's a variety that would even grow in our climate, or one that doesn't come true to seed etc.

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by rottenapple (U2290535) on Friday, 7th May 2010

  thanks Saravisiae and other posters, this is the kind of information i was looking for, if i can keep some of my own seeds and buy some its a good thing. No harm in trying.

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• Message 15

  , in reply to message 14.

  Posted by tattiebogle (U11728394) on Saturday, 8th May 2010

  You can save leek seeds, too, Rottenapple. You need to leave a few leeks in the ground and they'll flower in the summer and produce loads of seeds for you in the autumn. I think over the years you get better plants, as you are saving seeds from plants that are happy and healthy in your particular soil.
  
  F1 varieties of plants have been bred from 2 different parent plants and you don't know what you'll get if they produce seeds of their own, some will be like the 'mother' and some like the 'father', so I wouldn't save seeds from F1 varieties. The seed packet should say if it's F1 or not.
  
  

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