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Does anybody on here grow grapes?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Tuesday, 27th July 2010
I have had many great answers on here but 3 times have asked about growing a grape vine with no replies!
Does anybody have any tips or help they can give about growing white eating grapes? -
Message 2
Posted by 4smilingcat6 (U14338727) on Tuesday, 27th July 2010
I have grown a few grape vines over the years.
A vine is an investment so chose a variety that is best suited to your growing condition and do buy from a supplier with some knowledge.
And when it`s planted do not let it crop for about three? years,maybe a bunch or two earlier but you want it to get established.
Prune to the shape/framework you wish-it could be along posts and wires outside or one leader trained up and over the eave of a greenhouse.
Buy a book or google for pruning as it can vary -
Message 3
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Tuesday, 27th July 2010
Thanks. I am in year 5 now and have a lovely horizontal trellis. It grows lovely with nice bunches and gets lots of afternoon sun in North Kent. However when the grapes get to small fingernail size they stop. Last year (I copied what I saw at the Eden Project) I chopped off any growth above the horizontal wires to allow the grapes to grow instead of the vine growing stems instead. I also visited a vineyard and found I had the same set up but this still had the same outcome as the year before.
I don't understand why they are stopping at half the size. I have also seen 2 vines allowed to grow up the sides of a house without any pruning and that produces tons of fruit!!!!
Any tips as to what's the matter?????? -
Message 4
Posted by nanpickle (U14258493) on Tuesday, 27th July 2010
When I bought mine I was told to cut it right back the first year so all energy goes into roots, remove all fruit second year to build up energy in plant itself and let it fruit third year on. I thin out bunches around now and again later on, usually pick grapes in October. The birds usually know when the fruit is ripe, they don't bother with the grapes all summer, but suddenly early October they swoop - you may need to net the vine. Nan x
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Message 5
Posted by 4smilingcat6 (U14338727) on Tuesday, 27th July 2010
Any tips as to what's the matter??????
Not really,but if you have the time and patience try thinning the bunch twice. First when they set,and later with long nosed scissors cut out every other one.
PS-I no longer grow vines but I did and the advice might still be sensible? -
Message 6
Posted by tony (U14571167) on Saturday, 31st July 2010
hi, I grow grapes how may I help if I can.tvegg
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Message 7
Posted by Logissimo (U14020652) on Saturday, 31st July 2010
Hello,
I'm no expert but have a couple of vines against my house they are small, very sweet but have very thick skins and are full of pips. After an initial taste we quickly tire of them. Our Labrador loved them and so do the doormice of which there are plenty here.
Meanwhile back at the question, I wonder if there is a clue in you statement "they get lots of afternoon sun". I would think it would be ideal if they could be exposed to daylong sunshine but this may not be possible. They do like plenty of sun and heat. At 5 years old they should be producing well. -
Message 8
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Tuesday, 10th August 2010
I wondered if being sheltered during the morning may be hampering them but in a small garden they get as much as possible. Do you trim all the extra growth as it appears? And do you keep some lateral growth for next year or do your fruit appear from the new seasons growth?
I just find it odd they do so well and then around about the next couple of weeks just stop. Maybe because the summers have become darker and wetter causing them to slow???? -
Message 9
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Wednesday, 11th August 2010
I find this strange too! I had a white grape vine growing in a small garden, facing south west, but it only really had afternoon sun as well. Very good crops, skins a bit thick, we ate the best and made juice from the rest which was delicious.
How high is your trellis? I'm wondering because you say it's like in a vineyard - that's quite low in general and maybe the conditions
aren't really good enough to have a grape vine trained so confined like that.
Mine was against a wall and over a pergola at about 8 ft. I trimmed back the canes to three leaves after the bunch of grapes, and subsequent shoots the same. Never got around to thinning though.
They do need some lime and good fertilizing in spring. I think I would let it get a bit bigger actually. -
Message 10
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Wednesday, 11th August 2010
I wondered that. The previous ones I had seen were much bigger and one was on a house called "The Vines" where it obviously wasn't cut back as it covered the house like a Wisteria! I did wonder if I should have gone for the vertical approach instead of horizontal trellis.
What would you suggest if mine is too small as it is free standing in the garden. Would you suggest cutting back the vine right back and allowing to grow higher next year? Or allow the side growths to grow and just trim the side shoots from them next year? I have included a link which shows a setup similar to mine except for mine has 1 trellis instaed of 2. I have 2 cordons either side from the trunk in the middle. From these cordons are the 2010 growth that is attached to the middle and top wires and the upper growth is cut to this height.
I also wonder if I maybe being a little too gentle on the pruning and not going back to the cordon enough. Maybe I have these shoots coming from a smaller shoot off the cordon which runs out of energy. Its very hard to tell!!!!! -
Message 11
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Wednesday, 11th August 2010
That is a very optimistic picture re prospective crop!
Well, if you want to make it higher then you need to have two EXTRA new leaders from your vine so you will have to select these.
You should get them, they should be thick and strong growing,
you would then train these up to a second cordon - is this possible to construct above the existing trellis, i.e. keep what you've got?
You can do this anyway without compromising your crop in anyway.
I would also take out all the smaller bunches and thin out as well as suggested to see if this helps. You know vines do need a number of leaves to make the food to swell the grapes, taking away the growth
is more about letting light in than actually something that stops cropping. I often went on vacation for a month in late July, so
the grapevine just grew - I trimmed it back when I got back home, no effect on the crop.
One last, maybe very silly question, but in order to rule it out - it is a table variety which you are growing? There is an ornamental variety of vitus vinifera, which either aborts its fruit, or produces very small but edible red fruit. Just wondering.....
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Message 12
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Thursday, 12th August 2010
I have mislaid the packaging but it is a white eating grape bought from Woolworths 5-6 years back. (I thought the picture looked very exagerated too!!)
I wondered if the "top chopping" removed too many of the leaves, I thought they were sapping the grapes energy. It is possible to add another tier to the trellis to attach the leaders to in order to make it higher and I shall give that a go.
I suppose moving the vine will kill it now so its the only option.
I wonder what the variety is - I thought it was a Cabernet Sauvignon (I am not a wine drinker) but Wikipeadia is telling me that's a red grape!!!!!!!! -
Message 13
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Saturday, 14th August 2010
I am not by any stretch of the imagination an expert, but no-one else is answering you so here is my last 'effort'.
If either the words Cabernet or Sauvignon really were on the label then it is a wine grape! There is a white Cabernet, but is rare, Sauvignon Blanc is however a common cool climate white wine grape. Wine grapes tend to be bred for a small very sweet fruit with thick skins. The sugar for the alcohol and the skins for the flavour.
They are grown in quite harsh conditions with quite severe pruning to encourage small flavourful berries.
Table grapes are allowed a little more 'expansive' in growth, watering and fertilizer and are bred to produce larger, thinner skinned grapes. Yours however - whatever they are don't seem to be ripenng? It might be later than you think - mine, grown on a nice warm wall only started to ripen mid-August, the more exposed ones only getting ripe late September. Last year August was terrible, but we had a good long warm Autumn, your grapes should have ripened, that's what I find a little strange.....
What I'd do: Yes raise the trellis, you could go for two extra leaders - or if the present ones are still supple, you may be able to take them off and tie in higher....
Thin the bunches a little next year and allow the vine to grow a bit more, though you still need to trim it back. Leave all the leaves except in July take away any leaves immediately shading the bunches.
In the meantime, look for that label! It's not that you can't eat Sauvignon Blanc, but you will never get large fruit from it.
If you do have a wall with a sunny aspect you might consider
getting a new vine - a recommended variety (eg RHS site or search facility here) from a reliable garden centre.
All the best! -
Message 14
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Monday, 16th August 2010
Fantastic reply thanks, I will give that a try and see what happens. I am so annoyed with myself. Every packet cardboard backing and plastic bag has been kept bundled and held together with a peg - but no grape packet. I even have things there that stopped growing ages ago. Typical.
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Message 15
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Monday, 16th August 2010
Oh, one last thing - I forgot to mention this, and then forgot again about it......
If your vine gets a bad attack of powdery mildew, the grapes can get affected by this and just stop growing. Just mentioning, though you would have noticed this I guess unless you had been on holidays or something.
Just in case, this is organic and helps, but must be done when mildew is first detected :
In one litre of water, add two level teaspoons of bicarbonate of soda, a drop of detergent and a drop of vegetable oil.
Spray whole of plant. -
Message 16
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Monday, 16th August 2010
One last thing - I forgot to mention this, and then forgot again about it.
If your vine gets a bad attack of powdery mildew, the grapes can get affected by this and just stop growing. Just mentioning, though you would have noticed this I guess unless you had been on holidays or something.
Just in case, this is organic and helps, but must be done when mildew is first detected :
In one litre of water, add two level teaspoons of bicarbonate of soda, a drop of detergent and a drop of vegetable oil.
Spray whole of plant. -
Message 17
Posted by gonewest (U14578881) on Monday, 16th August 2010
Thanks for asking this question Garawa. I moved here nearly 2 years ago and there is quite a mature grapevine growing on a wall, but when we moved in although there were bunches of grapes on the vine they were so tiny. The previous people said they didn't know how to deal with it and had just let it grow all over the place like Jack's beanstalk. Last year I did a bit of reading up and started getting it in better shape pretty early in the year but whilst getting to grips with the rest of the garden I didn't realise I needed to do things later in the year so again lots of bunches of tiny grapes and no chance to ripen because of the amount of leaf growth shading them.
This year having cut back early in the year and having more time to concentrate on it I decided I would try cutting back again later on to concentrate the goodness and the sun to fewer but better bunches. Imagine my joy when I discovered I might actually be doing the right thing. I probably could have been brave enough to reduce the bunches further, but what I have are a decidedly better size.
Thank you too, Margaret, for your reply to Garawa as I now know I can go out again and nip off some of the leaves that have grown larger again and are shading some of the bunches. If I do get any to ripen before the last of this year's sun and warmth I reckon the birds will get the best of them, but at least I know I'm improving and can work harder on getting some for ourselves next year. I don't mind sharing with the birds, they brighten up the garden so much and there are only two of us to feed anyway. -
Message 18
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Wednesday, 18th August 2010
There has been some fantastic answers this time but this was the 3rd time I had asked this question over the last 8 months or so and this was the first time it was answered!!!!
I HAVE FOUND THE PACKET - HOOOOOORRRAAAAAAYYYYYY!!! And it is indeed a Cabernet Blanc! It doesn't give much information only that it should be 2m high within 5 years and the grapes can be eaten straight from the plant.
I love the tip about the powdery mildew and will keep an eye out for that, and will give a couple of other posts a go and see what happens!!!
Thankyou. (PS why would Cabernet Blanc grapes be small then?) -
Message 19
Posted by ageing_hippie (U6742113) on Wednesday, 18th August 2010
I just noticed the earlier post about the labrador liking grapes.
Please don't let dogs eat grapes. They are surprisingly toxic for dogs, causing kidney damage.
This also includes cooked fruit as in fruitcake. -
Message 20
Posted by Swedboy (U14400604) on Wednesday, 18th August 2010
I now feel like a parent neglecting a child. I planted a Dornfelder earlier this year and it seems to do well there it is and have one or two bunches of grapes on it. I have neither trailed it nor cut it down or removed any fruit.
I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed I think. -
Message 21
Posted by gonewest (U14578881) on Wednesday, 18th August 2010
You must talk to it nicely K-J.
I have to say ours was running completely wild and rampant before we moved here. Apart from getting decent fruit from it, another reason for taking it in hand was that once it gets to the top of the garden wall it then starts to strangle the clematis and my herbs growing on the patio above whilst at the same time completely shading out the few things at its foot level. -
Message 22
Posted by margaretstar (U14415248) on Wednesday, 18th August 2010
Google 'Cabernet Blanc' and you will get nothing! This makes me very suspicious about what your grape actually is.
Google 'White Cabernet' and you will find that it originates from a sport of a Cabernet Suavignon in Australia and is a patented vine.
I doubt that you would have been buying this in Woolworths!
There is a Cabernet Franc, but again a red wine grape (very small berries)
why would Cabernet Blanc grapes be small then?Â
As I said most wine grapes are bred for smaller fruit so that percentage-wise there is more skin (=more flavour) per grape.
My advice remains the same, perhaps with more emphasis on seeking out a reliable variety from a reliable garden centre as a back-up -
Message 23
Posted by Garawa (U11149617) on Monday, 23rd August 2010
Yeah thanks, just going to have to try a few things and see what happens! AE Roberts were the suppliers to Woolies, maybe I will have to try and prise some info from them (if they are still going).
I was going to try and see if I could attach a picture of the packet but it doesn't look as if it can be done on here.
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