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First time rotovator needs advice!
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Message 1.Â
Posted by NUNU (U11152701) on Thursday, 27th January 2011
Can anyone tell me the best way to rotovate an overgrown allottment? It has a couple of fruit trees and bushes but lots of it has grass grown on it. Should i slice off the toplayer of grass first then rotovate or just strim the grass down then rotovate? Dont want to break the rotovator as we'll be hiring it. Thanks.
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Message 2
Posted by Houdy222 (U8365378) on Thursday, 27th January 2011
Are you sure that you want to rotovate it? If you have Mares tail or Couch grass on the allotment then you could be giving your self more problems than you may have already. Rotovating will break up the roots of these in to many pieces which will in turn propogate themselves in to more weeds.
The best way (but also the hardest) is to hand dig it!! By doing this you will be able to remove a lot of the tough perennial weeds. Others may tell you to use a weedkiller such as Roundup which will not cause any lasting long term damage to the soil. -
Message 3
Posted by calculad (U3607616) on Thursday, 27th January 2011
Generally when we recover a rough plot on our allotment we strim as low as poss, then rotovate the top 2/3 inches, ie break it up.
I have also cracked open really compacted ground with a fork first. Just treading it in and pulling back a bit, not actually digging.
Finally rotovate again at full depth.
HTH
K -
Message 4
Posted by Stressed out (U11163734) on Friday, 28th January 2011
NUNU
When we are clearing areas I normally spray roundup and then cover with black plastic for a while. You can get silage sheet from your local farming supplies quite cheap.
Then dig by hand (its good for you honest)
As the other posters have pointed out if its got couch grass rotovating it will only increase your problem. It depends on how long it has been unused. -
Message 5
Posted by calculad (U3607616) on Friday, 28th January 2011
Just to go against the grain here a bit.
All the plots I have taken on have had bindweed, couch grass and mares tails.
I was advised by the old boys to throw away my fork (jokingly) and rotovate the lot in. I have to say I am a convert now.
Eventually these will all pop up again, but I have found that because you are growing veg (unless you are a No dig person) you will rotate crops and be digging (rotovating) it over each year and be able to get at these weeds in subsequent years.
They all are virtually gone now after, and to be honest they didn't cause that much work. Even the mares tails are severely weakened.
On balance, if you have a rotovator and are intending to clear each year, then I would advise you to carpet bomb the lot with the B52 rotovator.
This does also avoid the herbicides which I try to keep away from personally.
Regards,
K -
Message 6
Posted by whatalottie (U9072847) on Friday, 28th January 2011
DON'T
I totally agree with Houdy222. Rotovating can cause a nightmare later, particularly with horsetail, although couch/twitch. nettles and bindweed are pretty bad.
if you can't face digging it all (and it is a big ask) use glyphosphate, even if you never do again; or cover some of it with black plastic for a year (it's apparently particularly good for couch). If you're going to use glyphosphate it need to be on the green bits so it's better not to cut it down before you spray. It's also better to leave it until the plants are growing. Some may need more than one application.
Nobody will expect you to have the entire plot dug and working at the beginning, even the most strict of sites allow several months, or even a year, to have it straight.
Good luck, at least the weather is dryer now so you can dig without damaging the soil.
Lottie
Lottie -
Message 7
Posted by Bill (U13794806) on Friday, 28th January 2011
I cleared my badly neglected allotment yard by yard picking out every piece of couch grass & other weeds . It took me from September to March. I now can keep it under control easily & I have been self sufficient in veg for the last 3 years . My neighbour scoffed at me & rotavated & used weedkiller . After 4 years of this his plot is still smoothered in weeds & he grows half of what I do.
Your choice initial hard work & an easy life after or a continuial struggle -
Message 8
Posted by pjgolf (U2469936) on Friday, 28th January 2011
I agree with most people here.
I dont really buy into the rotovating thing. My plot was covered in bindweed when I got it. I have dug the lot out over the 1st 3 years on my plot but I have noticed that with the small bits I have missed or snapped when digging, it has germinated and grown at an alarming rate. Even a piece of bindweed root that is 1/8" long will grow and grow if you let it.
It this was chopped up by rotovating, then it would cover a whole plot easily.
I think that rotovating is the easy option, but not the best one !
PJ -
Message 9
Posted by bookertoo (U3655866) on Friday, 28th January 2011
I now you have heard it by nw, but I will add my plea - please do NOT rotovate your overgrown allotment.
We did that a few years ago, and for a week it looked great, then for the next several years every bit of broken root and stem grew into major weed plants and smothered everyhing. Even now 10 years later we regret almost daily that we did it,
Mark out a little bit that you can handle, dig it deep and pick out the weeds. Use that as your first sowing place in due course. As for the rest, chop it down as low as you can, and keep it cut back. If you want to cover it with thick black plastic or whatever, do so. Expose each new bed as you can use it - you can't do the whole thing in one season anyway, unless you are 5 people with 15 hours a day to spend on it.
Grow some lovely salads, & a few flowers, in the next little bed some roots if you like - and some sweet peas later on. Don't try to do it all at once, you will end up exhausted, unable to manage it and start hating the whole idea. Have seen it so often.
Gently, gently catchee monkee - and that goes for allotments too, and bin the rotovator. -
Message 10
Posted by NUNU (U11152701) on Saturday, 29th January 2011
Thanks for all of your suggestions, I am trying to find the best way forward as I have the full allottment now, only had half last year so I'ts half way there at least! But working full time with kids and a high maintainance mum it's hard work. But my little oasis x
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Message 11
Posted by greenspudsanono (U14768730) on Sunday, 30th January 2011
hi what ever you do i wouldn't use a rotavator at all untill the ground is completely cleared of all weeds especially the docs and couch grass and that means good old fashioned digging as the rotavator will just chop up all the weeds roots and then you will have 10 times the amount of weeds growing i know it sounds dounting as well if you have a large area but dont be tempted by the rotavator it will make more work for you,when you've weeded the ground then use it to break up the soil to a fine tilth and get planting,the best thing to do is get a lot of beer in and get friends to help it useually works,best of look jules.
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Message 12
Posted by ageing_hippie (U6742113) on Wednesday, 2nd February 2011
My experience is that the benefits of rotovating are very limited. I have seen horse-tail infestation made worse to the extent where the plot defeated all comers for over ten years. Also I have seen repeated rotovation damage soil structure by fluffing up the topsoil but creating an impenetrable, almost polished, hard pan layer beneath.
It may be that our local heavy soil is particularly unsuitable for rotovation, and that lighter soils might respond better.
I do have a small rotovator but I only use it for shallow cultivation to save time creating a tilth in the spring. -
Message 13
Posted by mikearrowgate (U3396156) on Wednesday, 2nd February 2011
Surely rotovating perennial weeds, mares tail etc can't be bad as Joe Swift did this on his allotment in Gardeners' World!!!! Pity we can't see what it is like now!
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Message 14
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Wednesday, 2nd February 2011
We are creating ourgarden from former pasture. I covered new beds with black plastic for months and then OH rotavated one day while I was out. 8 yrs later I'm still battling creeping buttercup, couch grass, thistles, nettles and bindweed over there.
Meanwhile, in the veggie plots the only digging is an annual trench to fill with compost for growing squashes. He does this by hand and foot. He could use his rotavator but it needs mending and that's my job to organise and I keep "forgetting". I might have to remember soon though as the lawns need a good scarifying and it's too big a space to do by hand.
The other veg beds just get hoed and mulched with compost. I sometimes cover with plastic in late winter to warm up the soil for a few weeks and kill any weed shoots. -
Message 15
Posted by cooperbean (U13920738) on Saturday, 5th February 2011
Dig it! trust me been there with my allotment and it can cause extra work if you rotavate all the "dodgy" weeds. Its hard work (i know) but better in the long run
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Message 16
Posted by aliceknit (U14587018) on Monday, 21st March 2011
hi what ever you do i wouldn't use a rotavator at all untill the ground is completely cleared of all weeds especially the docs and couch grass and that means good old fashioned digging as the rotavator will just chop up all the weeds roots and then you will have 10 times the amount of weeds growing i know it sounds dounting as well if you have a large area but dont be tempted by the rotavator it will make more work for you,when you've weeded the ground then use it to break up the soil to a fine tilth and get planting,the best thing to do is get a lot of beer in and get friends to help it useually works,best of look jules. I bought a Mantis cultovator in 1980. Used once. I have now bought an electric cultivator. I've been told not to use it until the ground is clear of weds. What is the point of a rotavator then??
Aliceknit -
Message 17
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Tuesday, 22nd March 2011
Electric cultivator Aliceknit? Sounds like an economical idea.
If you have got the electricity supply near enough, electric gadgets are an economical and effective option. Electric cultivator!
"My experience is that the benefits of rotovating are very limited"
After buying a sharp 30" saw blade the other day ,and doing things with it I should have done years ago instead of looking at a rusty old saw, I think the possibility of a sharp new spade should be suggested to the interlocutor!
I have just done 1/12th of an acre with fork and spade; a little bit, by little bit, and you get there in the end. An hour a day is very good for the soul -
Message 18
Posted by whatalottie (U9072847) on Tuesday, 22nd March 2011
I wouldn't have thought there is a battery rotovator, the engine would be too powerful. Is there such a thing as an electric rotofator with a power cord.
I'd have thought it would be extremely dangerous- well in my hands I'd probably run over the cable in the first five minutes!
Lottie -
Message 19
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Wednesday, 23rd March 2011
Mains driven garden tools are a way of thinking.
My garden runs in a quarter circle round the property so is ideal for such equipment, and a good deal cheaper than the internal combustion variety of tools.
There are fewer working parts, are cheaper to buy, and do the job as well ,if not better.
I looked up the above and it may be the answer to "rotovator" for me, since it is really an electric pronged fork, which save you the energy, at a human combustion level.
Rather like getting an electric bike for a pushbiker. -
Message 20
Posted by NUNU (U11152701) on Thursday, 24th March 2011
Mains driven garden tools are a way of thinking.
My garden runs in a quarter circle round the property so is ideal for such equipment, and a good deal cheaper than the internal combustion variety of tools.
There are fewer working parts, are cheaper to buy, and do the job as well ,if not better.
I looked up the above and it may be the answer to "rotovator" for me, since it is really an electric pronged fork, which save you the energy, at a human combustion level.
Rather like getting an electric bike for a pushbiker. Thanks everyone for your helpful advice, I got back into the swing of it all on saturday and started ............digging. Both the plot and my back are not as bad as i anticipated, but going back to dig some more and sort out the neighbour next door who has expanded his plot onto mine.......because he thought Id given up!! What a cheek!!!!! We'll see what the allottment officer and his tape measure have to say about that! Thanks again everyone xxxxx -
Message 21
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Thursday, 24th March 2011
i have got no interest in this commercial website at all, but I am getting to the point of needing a small tiller for a quarter of an acre.
Diggin' it all for a 65 year old is too much perhaps and unnecessary. I have got better things to do than dig by hand, but these big rotovators seem too much investment for what I have got.
Electric looks like the answer!
Thank you. -
Message 22
Posted by Global_Worming (U14532104) on Saturday, 26th March 2011
I just killed all the grass ect with weed killer, then I bought a 1976 Merry Tiller its a beast called loopy. The area had not been dug for 25yrs, the garden had only had the grass cut in the last 15yrs, we started april 1st 2010 and this is what happened.
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Message 23
Posted by 4smilingcat6 (U14338727) on Sunday, 27th March 2011
I am a big fan of rotovators-and as I`m no longer a spring chicken it`s saves me a lot of digging. But,and there is a but, I have had this garden for 18 years and the first 3 were spent digging out perennial weeds.
So assuming there are no/very few `nasty` weeds rotovate away-but if not then dig
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