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Tomatos
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Archie (U4739793) on Tuesday, 21st June 2011
I have a mini greenhouse with 3 tomato plants in a grow bag. The plants are at the top of the greenhouse and I have pinched out the tops. They are very busy and look healthy but have no flowers on them. I feed and water them regulary.
When can I expect flowers and do you spray them to make them set? -
Message 2
Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Tuesday, 21st June 2011
What's the NPK of what you've been feeding them with? No flowers usually means overfertilising, particularly with a fertiliser too high in nitrogen. Nitrogen promotes leaf growth at the expense of flowers (hence fruit). Toms need a fertiliser low in N, higher in P (to promote flower development) and higher in K (to promote fruit development).
If your fert is too high in N, I'd stop using it and try giving them a dose of potash. Later, try a fertiliser with the higher P and K percentages.
No, you don't need to spray. -
Message 3
Posted by Archie (U4739793) on Tuesday, 21st June 2011
I have been using tomorite every Saturday morning. I thought that was the best stuff.
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Message 4
Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Tuesday, 21st June 2011
Okay. I didn't know Tomorite but I just looked it up. Its NPK looks fine. What sort of soil is in the grow bag? Maybe it had a lot of nitrogen in it. I'd stop feeding for a couple of weeks anyway and see what happens.
Toms that are too well fed aren't really inclined to produce fruit. By producing fruit they're reproducing, and they're most likely to feel the need to reproduce when they're feeling in a little bit of jeopardy. In other words, not full of food. -
Message 5
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Tuesday, 21st June 2011
I worry that you have been feeding them - yet you have no flowers - you should not feed tomatoes until the first truss has set - I think you will find it is on the tomorite label!!- it sounds like they have been overfed- but what to do now.
Your problem now is they have reached the top of your mini- greenhouse- are they a bush or cordon variety?
You are going to have to treat them mean in a hope of getting a crop- dont let them dry out but dont overwater-do not feed!!
With a bit of luck something should happen soon- but....
Geoff
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Message 6
Posted by sanjyogi (U14887047) on Wednesday, 22nd June 2011
Hiya
My tomato plants are growing bigger day by day, with some flowers but still no sign of fruit? I am assuming fruits will be next in line after flowers...is that right?
My cherry tomatoes haven't got any flowers yet and I have fed my plants only once in the last two months.
Also, my sweet chilli and aubergine plants are still about two/three inches tall, since I planted them outside more than a month ago. Courgettes seem fine.
Am I on track? ;-O
Yogita -
Message 7
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Wednesday, 22nd June 2011
You dont really want to feed tomatoes until you see fruit- then once a week with a tomato fertilizer- yes if you have got flowers then fruit will follow .
Are you growing outside and in what part of the country?-you may struggle with aubergines and chillis outside - they do need a degree of warmth and it has not been that hot recently-have you a greenhouse?- but you are sort of on track.
hope this helps
Geoff
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Message 8
Posted by sanjyogi (U14887047) on Wednesday, 22nd June 2011
Thanks Geoff...
I live in West London. No green house ;-(...I propagated the seeds on window sills and planted them out when too big for propagators. It has been wet and grey for the last week or so...Atleast we will get some toms and courgettes then, if nothing else..
My brocolli is very leggy too....the carrots never sprouted and lettuce doesn't seem to be growing either! But my sun flowers are giant, over 6 feet tall already but still no flowers! I am loving it! -
Message 9
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Wednesday, 22nd June 2011
Down here near the Solent it has been miserable - trouble is I forget the sunny days!- and is raining now- forecast for Sunday is hot and sunny so In a way wet then warm- good growing weather!!
Be lucky
Geoff
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Message 10
Posted by germinator (U13411914) on Thursday, 23rd June 2011
My neighbour at the plot had given me two Marmande (tomato) plants, I have no experience of growing this variety (only eating). Usually we grow mainly an unnamed variety , they are small and tasty and have a pointed base and do reasonably well in our Antrim climate.
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Message 11
Posted by lottiebeans (U12886223) on Thursday, 23rd June 2011
I'm growing Marmande as well, along with Ailsa Craig, Gardeners Delight and Roma. I grew Marmande last year and got a reasonable crop but they seemed take a long time to ripen, I guess because they're a larger variety. I like to try something I've not grown before so am also growing Koralik this year. They are supposed to have some blight resistance so here's hoping as we seem to get blight every year at the allotment site. Anyone got any experience of them?
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Message 12
Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Thursday, 23rd June 2011
Koralik is bred for blight resistance. Meaning it will still get blight if it's around but will cope - hang in there - better than non-resistant varieties. I haven't grown it but a friend who has says it's a nice little tom.
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Message 13
Posted by germinator (U13411914) on Thursday, 23rd June 2011
Our unnamed tomato seed came from an Italian living in France, via our Portuguese friend.
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Message 14
Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Thursday, 23rd June 2011
That's an international tomato. I'm growing a tomato with a bit of a history. I learned Italian in Australia about 12 years ago, long before moving here. My Italian teacher's father emigrated from Calabria to Australia in the 1950s and took his favourite tomato seed with him. It was a pure variety and he kept it pure. My Italian teacher got some of the seeds from him for me to grow in Sydney. A beautiful large, very dark pink beefsteak. He never knew the name of the variety. He just called it "Sangue", Italian for "blood". When we came here, I brought them with me and grow them here. So whatever the variety is, it has done a 20,000 mile round trip.
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Message 15
Posted by ash (U14918413) on Friday, 24th June 2011
You dont really want to feed tomatoes until you see fruit- then once a week with a tomato fertilizer- yes if you have got flowers then fruit will follow .
Are you growing outside and in what part of the country?-you may struggle with aubergines and chillis outside - they do need a degree of warmth and it has not been that hot recently-have you a greenhouse?- but you are sort of on track.
hope this helps
GeoffÌý
I have two plants growing in my greenhouse watered reg but did'nt feed until first truss had set, flowers have followed and now have fruit on both plants used tomatorite on everyother watering routine, my question is would tomatoe plants survive in the open and produce fruit. i live in the north and cannot trust the weather would it be worth a try -
Message 16
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Saturday, 25th June 2011
Hi ash,
Its worth a try but you wont be able to plant out until June at the earliest- it is the cold nights that slow them down- you should have ripe fruits late august or so-depending on the weather- if you're lucky- when they are dirt cheap in the shops!- but you grew them yourself and you can choose variety!
Hope this helps
Geoff -
Message 17
Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Saturday, 25th June 2011
As Geoff says, temperature is the main factor. You'd need daytime temps consistently at least in the low 20s and not less than about 15C overnight. Much lower than that overnight and the plants basically just sit there and don't develop so you're effectively losing half your growing period.
Sun, of course, is a given. -
Message 18
Posted by ash (U14918413) on Saturday, 25th June 2011
thanx geoff i have two plants in pots hardened off in garden now still seem to be growing although not quiet as well as would like . wheather not up to much though forecast to get a lot hotter in next day or so, would i be better off repotting in bigger pots or plant out, might get decent return if weather picks up though living in north west cant bank on it
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Message 19
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Sunday, 26th June 2011
I followed everybody's advice here, and after a second attempt in the mini-prop got them potted on and in to the garden at the end of May, early for most years.
They now take the form of of bush tomato plants with quite a few healthy looking flowers on all of them.
The question of "root training is one that will exercise my mind next year for all these plants as three weeks or more is wasted, while they decided what they have got to do, instead of curling round the potted on pot. -
Message 20
Posted by Barney_pl (U13897738) on Sunday, 26th June 2011
I live in mid-Lincolnshire, and for the last two years, not having a greenhouse, grow my tomatoes outside. I grow Harbinger for standard tomatoes and red cherry which I tend to eat like sweets, picking and eating whenever I pass by the plants.
They go into large, deep pots, two to a pot, in May, and live by the south-facing, cream-painted wall. They stand in a long plastic tray and once the first truss has set, I feed them weekly with Tomorite or its equivilent, watering via a deep pot (about the size and shape of a large beer can) plunged into the soil-and-compost mix, and feed from the top.
The crops for those two years meant I gave loads away, made soups and chutney, and ate tomatoes at lunch and dinner. (I drew the line at tomatoes for breakfast, preferring to stick with Weetabix). I was still harvesting the last of the crop in late October, and as I hadn't had time to clear them away, there were still a few fruits left on when the snow came in November.
This year, in spite of the weird and wonderful weather (windy and rather chilly a lot of the time, and certainly not above 16 / 17 degrees in the shade until today), they have masses of flowers and are just beginning to set fruit. I'm looking forward to another good harvest.
Hope this helps. -
Message 21
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Monday, 27th June 2011
And the Tomorite costs more than the crop you produce?
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Message 22
Posted by Barney_pl (U13897738) on Monday, 27th June 2011
And the Tomorite costs more than the crop you produce?Ìý No. Why?
Because I:
> raise my own plants from seed,
> use home-made compost, reuseable pots
> the Tomorite equivalent costs me less than the amount of tomatoes I would normally buy from the supermarket in two weeks (95p for six of unreliable size and flavour on a week-by-week basis),
> One bottle lasts the whole season,
> I have a crop that means I can have tomatoes as often as I like, of a reliable quality and flavour,
> I know exactly what's been used in their production,
> save air miles on their transport from places like Poland, the Canaries, Holland,
> make soups, chutneys and salads with them and
> give away the excess to neighbours who appreciate them.
All-in-all, great value for money. -
Message 23
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
How do you quantify the increase that you get compared with what you would have got any way?
If you can't, and I certainly can't, it looks distinctly expensive!
There may be a Tomorite statistical website doc somewhere, to help me, and even then i would be reluctant to take it as gospel. -
Message 24
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
How do you quantify the increase that you get compared with what you would have got any way?
If you can't, and I certainly can't, it looks distinctly expensive!
There may be a Tomorite statistical website doc somewhere, to help me, and even then i would be reluctant to take it as gospel.Ìý Is cost really a factor?- if you take into account the money we spend on pots,composts water and everything else that goes with gardening- plus your labour-we are all running at a loss- that is not why we do it ,is it?
You have grown something either to look at or eat - its yours,you grew it and the satisfaction of knowing that outways everything-it is not always about money!!
Geoff -
Message 25
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
Agreed that money value is not the be and end all of gardening, since money is only a frequently inadequate measure!
Science, and horticultural science is surely something which does have monetary measure if we care to use it? Surely the more economically effective the task, the more pleasure in doing it?
Weighing up the things dogcody has mentioned is quite difficult.
"Homesteading" based on anti-capitalism, and anti consumerism is a leap of faith for some and a reasoned judgement for others, but a wise move by all of them/us!
I very much regret the vast over pricing of second/retirement homes, many used only for a few weeks a year, which would make good "homesteads" for many an otherwise underemployed Allotment holder,with respect!
Most allotment holders seem to have seen the light, but not the arithmetic!
Next diatribe next week
It may also be said the only place money is made, is in the retail sale of the produce, and those prices are so completely contrived as to be very false friends indeed. If you sell your own produce at a boot sale or Craft fair, that is the most enjoyable part of the season! Public relations! Contrive the price!
"Price comparisons" may be made at any time, from your super allotment, with the S-M prices. They do it; you should too!
I am just measuring the retail value of broadbeans on a small plot 5mX5m
I should like to know the retail value of a plot planted in the same way of 50mx50m (which is available to me)
I need to weigh the 'crop', about 6kg of bean from 5x5 (25m sq), and compare with (2,500m sq). Firstly what crop should I get from the 100x100?
Then at what price could I sell organic beans at the door, organic generally meaning "Please help the grower!He is poor! -
Message 26
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
(2,500m sq). Firstly what crop should I get from the 100x100?Ìý
Sorry 50x50 lastly.
Basically it is about 1kg per square metre, so 2,500m sq makes 2,500kg, on quite a small plot. It would probably turn out at about 1/2kg /sq m.
2,500lbs of broad beans; that is a nice profit. on 1/2 acre.
I hope nobody wants me to use Tomorite!!!!! -
Message 27
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
I am not sure...........but I think I agree with you.....to me it is just a "hobby"...
Geoff -
Message 28
Posted by Barney_pl (U13897738) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
Gardda and Geoff:
For me, it is a great deal to do with cost, both financially and enviromentally, and I known from experience and costing it out that growing my own salads and fruit saves me in the region of £10 a week over the summer / autumn seasons, because I eat considerable amounts of fruit and veg all year round. For the last three years, I've done price per pound / unit comparisons with my usual supermarket and I know this to be true.
Currently I have 12lbs blackcurrants (most of this year's crop) and 9lbs
raspberries (about a quarter of this year's crop) in the freezer. The gooseberry bushes are so laden with fruit that I have had to prop the branches and thin them out. I haven't picked the redcurrants yet, but there will be about 3lbs (these will do better next year, when they are better estabished). Check these premium-priced fruits in the shops, and you'll see that my harvest this year has paid for the bushes, and will go on producing crops for the next nine years or so.
I'm growing Little Gem lettuce, and one lasts a main meal and a sandwich each day, because I can afford to compost the outer leaves and only use the heart. A packet of seed = one and a half iceberg lettuce (my lettuce of choice when home-grown isn't available, and which lasts me a week). To grow them has cost almost nothing as they are in the ground.
I'm growing carrots and salad onions. The cost of the carrot seeds, cropping over 16 weeks or more is paid in four weeks, the cost of the salad onion seeds, in a week. To grow them has cost almost nothing as they are in the ground.
I'm growing potatoes and the cost of the seed potatoes is covered ten times by the weight of the harvest compared to shop-bought potatoes. To grow them has cost almost nothing as they are in recycled compost bags growing in home-grown compost.
Yes, I do buy compost for starting off things in the mini-greenhouse, but I buy the big bags at three for £10. All of that gets recycled into my garden at the end of the season and helps to improve my clay soil.
The initial cost of setting up is expensive, but if we have been gardening (as so many of us have been) for many years, the harvest far exceeds the annual outlay.
We make our own compost, recycle pots, propagate plants, grow from seed, etc. We have a hobby that feeds us, body and spirit, gives us outdoor exercise at a pace we can manage, and great pleasure and a sense of well-being.
What else could we do that gives us such wholesale benefits, financial and holistically? -
Message 29
Posted by Barney_pl (U13897738) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
Gardda: The reason I use a Tomorite equivilent for my container-grown tomatoes is because a comparison done without it has shown that it's worth it, in flavour and in harvest.
Apart from that, and treating inherited bindweed and cinqefoil, (both now almost under control) with glycosphate, this garden is chemical-free. The birds, frogs, newts and friendly insects deal with most of the problems. -
Message 30
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
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Message 31
Posted by figrat (U3054696) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
Gardda: The reason I use a Tomorite equivilent for my container-grown tomatoes is because a comparison done without it has shown that it's worth it, in flavour and in harvest.
Apart from that, and treating inherited bindweed and cinqefoil, (both now almost under control) with glycosphate, this garden is chemical-free. The birds, frogs, newts and friendly insects deal with most of the problems.Ìý I use tomorite on container grown toms, but not on regular basis. I mix a small handful of cluck muck into the compost when they go into their last pots. I don't feed the ones I have growing in my border.
I've never done the maths, all I know is I haven't bought any salads for months, friends are already benefitting from what looks like a bumper crop of courgettes, toms all setting fruit, mange touts cropping well and a real delight to look at too..
I do it because I love it. -
Message 32
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
If I may jump back in for a moment-the point I was trying to make, perhaps not as eloquently as I would like ,( sometimes I wish I didn't say things)- is that I do not garden to just save (or make) money and IF you factored in the unpaid labour costs, we are probably all running at a loss, but just for the sheer pleasure of it all.
I think I'm starting to repeat myself-it's an age thing...........
Geoff -
Message 33
Posted by Barney_pl (U13897738) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
Geoff, yes, I, too, work in the garden because I love it. I doubt I'd have seen it as a health benefit when I became ill if I hadn't already learned that it is a grand hobby.
I guess for me, the labour costs don't come into it, as gardening is the best exercise I can think of for someone with my medical problems, I can work in the garden for as short or as long a period as I like, at a time of day which suits me, and I can choose something energetic if I'm well enough, or gentle, if I'm not too well, but well enough to be up and about. A lot of the work can be done on my knees, or sitting down,
The hours I spend in the garden per week saves the NHS a packet in physiotherapy time (and perhaps for some fitter people, the cost of going to the gym), and not only for me, but for all of us who work in the garden, the health benefits are enormous, keeping us active, rather than slouching in front of the television, keeping us supple, keeping us stimulated, mentally and physically, and for some, keeping the low moods at bay.
BTW, I forgot to mention the courgettes, peas, strawberries and hazelnuts growing in the garden, and that the front garden has two long-ish borders as full of food for the spirit in the form of a wonderful chaos of colour and planting as the back garden has food for the body. -
Message 34
Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
Barney
With you 100%-
Geoff -
Message 35
Posted by mucky-kevin (U14867877) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011
ive only started this year and im addicted to it , ive got radishes , lettuce , beetroot, spring onions,basil ,mint, thyne,rocket, and four lots of toms,and the joy of growing it is fab, when im eating it i know where its from ,who touched it ,not like shops when you havnt a clue, and yes thedogcody it is the sheer pleasure that puts a smile on your face .
many thanks kevin....... -
Message 36
Posted by sanjyogi (U14887047) on Wednesday, 29th June 2011
I agree...its so satisfying and therapeutic to see little tomato berry like fruit emerging from the flowers...thats the latest thing for us in our backyard! My 2.5 yrs son loves watering and weeding, though he sometimes weeds out the actual crop!
My 5 yr old, who had been away for a few weeks, is coming back next week and would be thrilled to see the little sunflower seeds he sowed turn into 7 foot something giants! Its our first time at growing our own fruit and veg and its such fun to wake up in the morning and check on the progress of all little plants! -
Message 37
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Wednesday, 29th June 2011
Some amusing replies to dogcody's original remarks!
I am no vegetable expert. this house has always been called "Appletrees" and always will be; it is just that I should like to grow my own vegetables and I have had to do a fair re-organisation of the garden to achieve it. I've got more to do.
I've often done one crop in a garden that I have owned, but never done the whole range of things, as I am doing this year, thanx to TG's tutelage and others.
I have spent about £50 on mini-gh/heated prop, and potting compost.
I no longer think about where my next veg will come from.
The saving made is from not having to do expensive trips OUT of the garden to go get things you think you need!
My diet has improved by leaps and bounds,even if it includes Dandelion salad. I had a distinct inclination to dine on more meat protein when there was insufficient veg in the freezer.
A weed free garden is a well worked one, on the whole, unless it is underdone with plastics. I am enjoying the weeds this year, and considering a goat for the thistles nearby.
Things like Fennel grown in the garden to give plum (also grown) wine a more distinguished taste , and fermented in the cellar, takes some beating, and will never be profitable because i shall drink most of it.
But if i went out boozing it would cost me a good deal of money; that is the real saving.
Some people arrive at their new allotment after considerable thought about history and politics.(Let's not talk about that!) They know they are being ripped off, even by the so called ethical food retailers, and just want to grow it themselves.
The word "Consumerism" in the hands of a lawyer, may seem bad when prosecuting and good when defending, or vice versa. In my language, it is always to be avoided, and when necessary to take up the Anti-consumerist stance to beat it!
US citizens do not need to be anti- anything. They just find themselves a "Homestead" and start diggin'! Unless UK citizens go to de-populated parts of Spain and Portugal, such homesteading is, for the price, not possible.
I know quite a certain number of very enterprising young British families who have done precisely that.
And without giving a url to a commercial site "Pure Portugal" (look-up) provides a very detailed and co-operative service for those who want to do it.
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