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How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Sunday, 6th November 2011
If a woodcutter would cut wood?
A Hide was a measure of land considered enough to support a family in the 16thC, before the days of the canals and coal delivery thereupon. Between 60-120acres.
How much of that land would have been used for growing wood for
keeping warm, which is now done by Oil/Gas and nuclear fuel?
Half of it?Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 2
Posted by farmerSteve (U2644680) on Monday, 7th November 2011
interestiing idea
I believe it is unlikely that the average family would have had a whole hide and much more likely that it woulod have been shared between 5 or 6 as 10 - fiteen acres would have been plenty to have fed a large family on everything but the poorest land
The land would have been farmed in common (as well as providing labour to the Landowner) by the different families on a three field system
It is unlikely that this land would have included any woodland as that would be reserved to the landlord but the peasants would have certain rights
including the collecting of firewood and possibly pannage, the right to graze pigs in the wood at certain times of the year
The peasant would be allowed to collect any fallen timber and trimmings from hedges etc
Of course as the woods were managed there was a lot of surplus timber from tree felling etc which it would be the childrens job to collect
Remember the average peasant would not have had much heating only using the heat from the cooking and probably bringing the bedding near the haerth in the coldest weather
In Russia the beds would have been over the stove!
Another source of fuel would of course be sods or peaty soil which one could find in many wet area
I am very interested in this subject as my personal farming knowledge would indicate their is a lot of tripe written on this subjectLink to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 3
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Monday, 7th November 2011
So with the use of fossil fuels and the fact that they gleaned their firewood from the forest the figure for individual household need was much lower, say 15-20acres.
So in my large totally self sufficient garden I would be able to grow an acre of wheat/barley for all my bread needs? What is the yield per acre of good soil now? Or per 100sq m?Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 4
Posted by bookertoo (U3655866) on Tuesday, 8th November 2011
That is a little bit of a how long is a bit of string question really.
Much will depend on a) your soil and its preparation b) the type of seed you use, c) its pollination d) your intensity of weeding e) rainfall or lack thereof.
Enough for a years bread - again, how much bread do you like to eat? For how many people?
Getting your wheat ground into flour is another consideration to think about - I suspect it is not easy but would be very interested to hear how you get on if you decide to go that route.
All the best to you - we may all be doing this is the nost too distant timesLink to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 5
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Tuesday, 8th November 2011
A loaf per week per person. Today only four in the house.
M/D two kids.
There are of course other things made from flour like pasta., so some of that too.
How much acres would [ an average yield ] be required to provide such a quantity.?
average Tons per acre must be calculated somewhere even if only for the IR.
I get two tons of apples from a fifth of an acre so a ton of grain from an acre would not be so much, and more than enough for requirements aboveLink to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 6
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Tuesday, 8th November 2011
answer? Wiki answers Between 1-3 tons per acre.
Call it just one, for the local gardener/ horticulturist.
So a fifth of an acre for all the fruit needs of a family of four
one acre for all the bread and pasta needs of same family.
That is one acre and a fifth.
Potatoes anybody?Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 7
Posted by netherfield (U3897706) on Wednesday, 9th November 2011
Have you taken in to account you won't get a ton of flour from a ton of wheat.
Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 8
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Wednesday, 9th November 2011
Ah! Nether! how are you?!
What would the milled weight be?
For a family of four, I should think that 10cwt of milled flour would be sufficient for the year.
Gar dda
gleaning by chickens and bees would be a big extra and only require a bout a 1/2 acre.
I produced 180kg 400lbs of honey in the back garden one year, but that was a bumper crop. Some years it would be nothing.
Eggs...........
How many hens would be required to make enough cake eggs for all this notional family?
Was it Joe the Gardener who reckoned I would need a hundred acres?
We are up to about three at the moment!Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 9
Posted by Joe_the_Gardener (U3478064) on Wednesday, 9th November 2011
No, I asked the questions.
Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 10
Posted by farmerSteve (U2644680) on Wednesday, 9th November 2011
you will still need a similar acreage for your livestock
perhaps a couple of goats and a few pigs
these are essential to maintain the fertility in the ground
i am certain they would have grown some vegetable as well but I am not sure which
they would have had to have some food for the pigs cattle and goats would eat hay of course cut from the fields and margins during the yearLink to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 11
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Wednesday, 9th November 2011
Turnips used to be the basic diet before spuds came along but i am not suggesting that! they may have been more reliable than potatoes.
Pigs wreak havoc with roots though and then where are you In the middle of a dung heap.
half a dozen goats might be ok
I think I have got to assume that fertilizer will be imported possibly from the sewage works, in the same way as oil from Fossil fuels.
That is a concession to civilization.
So then fewer livestock would be required.Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 12
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Saturday, 12th November 2011
I am beginning to think that only about two acres would be quite sufficient for a family of four, for nearly all their needs.
Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 13
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Saturday, 12th November 2011
I am beginning to think that only about two acres would be quite sufficient for a family of four, for nearly all their needs.
Either gleaning wood from forest or oil/gas fro the north sea for the time being would be allowed.Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 14
Posted by Joe_the_Gardener (U3478064) on Saturday, 12th November 2011
Search Wikipedia for 'Ecological footprint'.
Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 15
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Saturday, 12th November 2011
I can't see my garden there?
The idea that we belong to the land rather than the land belongs to us is a good one.
According to the WWF calculator I should have died when I was 35 to make way for people with helicopters. Wildly inaccurate.
Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 16
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Saturday, 12th November 2011
Ah! I see the point. that even the lowest user of all these things still uses too many planets, however little he breathes!
According to BFF I would need about 3.9ha. nearly ten acres.
They have done some calculating which I am ready to accept.
I know few people who use less than I do of ANY of the things mentioned , but if I think of the poverty stricken of northern Kenya, THEY probably only need a couple of acres.
So if I use 2.3 planets and 10 acres. presumably total self sufficiency would require me to use only about 3 acres, I could do by not using any oil or electricity and not eating any meat.
Currently my heat and light bill is 15% of my state pension.
Self sufficiency for all, might mean 3 planets or even 5 planets.
It is all far too sophisticated and simplistic as well!!!
It's ridiculous!
The footprints are a reactionary side step to avoid commitment
to any kind of real action to reduce dependence on others.
it is a bundle of foolish statustics with so many assumptions hidden in it, that it's contemptible!!Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 17
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Sunday, 13th November 2011
Joe I'm down to 1.3 planets on a different website application.
how come there is suuch a big difference in the number of planets and a bit on different ones?
Are they all hocus pocus and not in the real world at all, which says tome, that however many people there are in the world if I want to predict how much I need at the end of my garden,it is probably about (for myself) an acre; for a family of four 2-2.5 acres for more or less everything on a Menonite basis.Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 18
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Sunday, 13th November 2011
Joe I'm down to 1.3 planets on a different website application.(from 3.9)
How come there is such a big difference in the number of planets and a bit, on different ones?
Are they all hocus pocus and not in the real world at all, which says to me, that however many people there are in the world, if I want to predict how much extra I need at the end of my own garden,it is probably about (for myself) an acre; for a family of four 2-2.5 acres for more or less everything on a Menonite basis.
At that rate we could all bath once a week in fruit juice, and on 3.9planets, twice a day. The devil is in the detail!
NopsisLink to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 19
Posted by farmerSteve (U2644680) on Sunday, 13th November 2011
These figures are all rubbish designed to reinforce peoples political points
The land required to feed a person varies hugely across the world
half an acre in parts of South East Asia could feed a family on a a vegan diet whereas there are huge areas of the world which cannot support life unless you are eating mostly meat. These areas are of course not suitable for cropping with plants which Humans can digest. This is not just in the extreme latitudes such as Scotland I jest but include much of the Semi Arid areas such as North East Africa the middle East ands Northern Asia
I think I could hapily feed a family of four on two acres and live very comfortably off three but I am not sure how I could earn enough to pay my council tax etc while I was doing itLink to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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Message 20
Posted by Joe_the_Gardener (U3478064) on Sunday, 13th November 2011
Steve,
You could probably feed a family of four on two acres of Leicestershire, but much land in the world is so difficult to farm that agriculture is extensive in nature.
PapaN refers earlier to Kenya. My guess would be that parts of that country and others would be home to hunter-gatherers or nomadic herders/agricultualists, so hundreds of hectares per family might be a more realistic figure - which bumps up the world average somewhat.Link to this forum: How much wood would a woodcutter cut...?
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