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Still have trouble after germination of seeds...

• Message 1. 

  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Thursday, 15th March 2012

  I'm not prepared to throw in the towel just yet...
  
  I posted a few weeks ago, having trouble germinating seeds in a heated propotator. With vermuclite on the seed compost and watering from the bottom to keep the compost moist, there has been a drastic improvement, most things are surviving out of the propogator for longer than a few days. And I no longer have a problem with compost turning into concrete.
  
  Some plants aren't lasting longer than a week off the heated propogator though, aubergines lasted just over a week and were looking good but in the space of a couple of days have all toppled over.
  
  Toms, chillies, peppers, cucumber, sunflowers have all grown leggy. Flowers and herbs have faired better- lupins, marrigolds, basil and dahilas are only a couple of cm's tall. These seem to have stopped growing though and are still in the seed compost with only two leaves (not true ones).
  
  A few Q's ... Firstly what am I doing wrong....
  
  ...the plants are still in seed compost, can they be potted up into a compost with more food in.
  
  Should the plants be transfered into an unheated propogator once germinated to ajust to less ground heat.
  
  The propogator is probably to warm how can the temp be brought down...
  
  I'm happy to take advise....and plan to sow again this weekend....

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by thedogcody (U14659366) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  Zoomer
  
  Having read your post-three things spring to mind-perhaps the thermostat in the propagator has gone and it is too hot,secondly once seeds have germinated they should be removed to a cooler but well lit spot which explains the leggy seedlings they are drawing up to the light and thirdly you may have started too soon-but who doesn't !!
  
  What I would do is move the seedlings into the greenhouse but keep an eye on the outside temperature and cover on cold nights-it is the good light they now need.
  
  Once a pair of true leaves have grown then prick out into potting compost- I tend to use multi-purpose for everything rather than different ones-that is for economic reasons but it works for me.

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• Message 3

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  Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  Zoomer,
  You should pot on out of seed compost when the first two true leaves show, they do not need food to germinate and will do so in sand but like babies they need some food from then on but not a lot at first.
  Pot on into slightly larger trays with a JI number 2 type potting soil I use around one third good fresh potting soil a third washed sand and a third fine grit mix.
  When they look a little more sturdy with a root system then pot on for a final time but not into too big a pot, many people make that mistake, the root system needs to be a bit cramped to develope. I do this into a JI type number 3 compost, two thirds good compost and one third mixed washed sand and fine grit.
  One heat propagators are OK for starting things but as all seeds need differing germinating warmth I use a thermostat on the sand bed. Having built shelves above the sand bed the plants can be put on those after re-potting allowing some warmth to rise round them but they will not be too hot.
  Greenhouses will have differing heat levels from hour to hour or even minute to minute. A cooling fan with a thermostat will help to move the air around although once in the final pot look to putting the plants in a cold frame that can be closed at night and a blanket put on it for the odd frost.
  The only way to bring down temperature in a one heat propagator is to prop the lid open or even take it off but leave the heat on if needed, on a hot day turn the heat off until the evening although that means it has to get up to heat again so best done early.
  I know you have to travel and it means you are not there to adjust vents and heat, it is better to leave green house vents open if you have to leave them for a few hours as heat kills the plants quickly.
  Before I retired I found the cooling fan and sand bed both on thermostats the best way to keep things on a more even temperature, it did not always work but then nothing does.
  You do need to keep up with the potting on and I would often be sitting at my potting tray wishing it was all done late at night, now I can do it in my own time as it is essential, they can go leggy or fall without the correct soil mix.
  Never give up and we will never save everything, I still have failures even though I am there most of the time, it happens but "Hey" we gardeners are born optimists.
  Frank.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  I'd agree with all of that. Especially the need for serious light. Once germinated, temperature is less important than light.
  
  Does the propagator have a thermostat? And how moist is the mix inside the propagator? You need to be careful of adding moisture when you're going to be already getting moisture from condensation. You may have a dose of damping off.

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  Posted by Italophile (U12516505) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  Bit of cross-posting. I was agreeing with Cody's post. Hadn't seen the latest post. It's good stuff too.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by kate1123 (U14824475) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  Zoomer if it helps most of the seedling that I have taken out of my propagator have not grown more than a cm, but I am not worried, I have assumed that once the light levels improve they will romp away.
  
  I have put some of my seedling pots in plastic bags, this is so that I can keep the seedlings moist without drowning them. This seems to work for me.

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• Message 7

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  Posted by Tee Gee (U10012255) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  I no longer have a problem with compost turning into concrete. 
  
  Well thats one good thing!
  
  
  
  Some plants aren't lasting longer than a week off the heated propogator though, aubergines lasted just over a week and were looking good but in the space of a couple of days have all toppled over. 
  
  Did you ventilate the propagator?
  
  You could remove the lid/s during daylight hours and return the lids at dusk!
  
  Toms, chillies, peppers, cucumber, sunflowers have all grown leggy. Flowers and herbs have faired better- lupins, marrigolds, basil and dahilas are only a couple of cm's tall. 
  
  This is mainly due to lack of light, and most of us suffer from this at this time of the year, so it is not only you!
  
  These seem to have stopped growing though and are still in the seed compost with only two leaves (not true ones). 
  
  You need to prick them out into a potting compost.
  
  When doing this sink the leggy part as far down the pot as you can, ideally to around 5-10 mm below the seed leaves
  
  
  Firstly what am I doing wrong....
  
  ....the plants are still in seed compost, can they be potted up into a compost with more food in. 
  
  Answered above!
  
  
  Should the plants be transfered into an unheated propogator once germinated to ajust to less ground heat. 
  
  This is a diificult one!
  
  If the bulk of the seedlings have germinated then Yes!
  
  If only a few have germinated then just ventilate the heated one until such times as a few more seeds germinate, then move them if you like!
  
  
  The propogator is probably to warm how can the temp be brought down... 
  
  We discussed that in a previous thread and it would seem you have followed that advice.
  
  You could turn the power off during the day but leave the lids on and the heat that has built up in the seed compost and the capillary matting or sand base should sustain the seedlings for a few hours.
  
  Consider fitting a 'timer' to your power source say a couple of hours "on" and a couple of hours "off."
  
  Finally steady on with the watering!
  
  
  I hope that helps!
  
  ps Just a thought when you sow your seeds try and spread them thinly or better still if the seeds are large enough to sow individually do this.
  
  This helps the ventilation process as the air can get between the plants and the plants are less likely to touch each other.
  
  see here;
  
  

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• Message 8

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  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  TGD.
  
  I thought it might have been too cold in the GH but will move all my peas in there this weekend to see how they fair and then move some of the more stronger looking seedlings in over the weekend, Nothing ventured nothing gained. I was going to sow more seeds as a back.
  
  I've been using multi purpose compost and compost from the darlik to pot up but am happy to try a mix if I can get the other ingredients cheaply enough.

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  Frank.
  
  I think you grow things on a bigger scale than me. I don't have electric in the GH so a cooling fan would be a luxury too far.
  
  I'll certainly start to take the lid off the propogator. I've been leaving seedlings in the propogator until more seeds germinate but that's meant some going leggy.
  
  I've a selection of different sized pots so potting on shouldn't be a problem.

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  The propogator doesn't have a thermostat, makes a mental note to get one with an ajustable temp control next time.
  
  Kate. One of the problems I've had has been some seeds germinate before others and even the same variety don't germainate at the same time so putting in smaller pots with fewer seeds and covering with there own plastic cover makes alot of sense.

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  TG.
  
  Gardening is a learning curve and so 'common sense' providing you have some to start with.
  
  I'd started to take the lid off the propogator this week and putting it back on in the evening and although I sink toms up to their first leaves didn't realise you could do that with all plants thinking some might be a tab bit more sensitive to having their stems earthed up than others.
  
  I was waiting for more seeds to germinate but in doing so meant the ones which have germainated get leggy which is a false economy. I've decided to plant double what I need for instance 4 cucumbers and providing two have germinated will take them out of the heated propogator.
  
  I can certainly put a timer on the power source to switch it on and off over the course of a day.

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• Message 12

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  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  Thanks for the replies. Hope I've replied to everyone.
  
  I'll sow again this weekend, as said before nothing ventured nothing gained, wish me luck..

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• Message 13

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  Posted by BensGrandad (U7827628) on Friday, 16th March 2012

  I had problems growing from seed to plants but followed TEE GEE advice and his website thegardenersalmanac.co.uk and overcome my problems this is a very informative site.

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Saturday, 17th March 2012

  Zoomer, my garage is up the drive past the house and the green house is a Robinson lean to nearly the full length of the garage facing fully South.
  I just go through the wall for electrics.
  The fan cool air and frost guard is ten years old and cost £18, the sand bed is fifteen years old and cost £25 back then.
  I grow for myself and a few trays for the daughters probably not much more than you these days, the garden gets you out and active at a time you could be sinking into the west.
  I have seen one tray damp off in the centre of a whole staging of trays, more so since we have lost the use of peat although I can still get it and still use it for seed setting, just not as much as I once did. They tell us to cut down on its use but have nothing any way as good to replace it, I lost a lot of things until I started to use it again.
  We know we will lose things yet still persist, I have a first class nursery just up the road where I do buy some things that are harder to grow (must be getting lazy) the plants are top class and they will replace losses I only ever had one.
  Sweet Peas are the bain of my life yet I still try every year and have tried all the tips and idea's in all the books, I still have either a full blooming or nothing, no in between maybe this year.
  Keep going Zoomer we still have the satisfaction of seeing and eating our own efforts.
  Frank.

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• Message 15

  , in reply to message 14.

  Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Sunday, 1st April 2012

  Just to let you guys know who gave advise.
  
  Unless something disasterous happens like not covering plants, if there's a frost or everything drying out in the GH on a hot day most seedlings are doing really well and some, like toms are nearly ready to pot up again so I'll be able to bury them deeper to reduce their leggyness. I've 15 dahlias which now have four leaves. Aubergines have been very slow but I've sown a back up lot.
  
  One happy bunny
  
  The GH has never been so full at this time of the year. We've had some hot days and cold nights in the NW with frost last night so I'm reluctant to leave them out overnight, not being convinced a layer of fleece is sufficient to keep the cold off.
  
  

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