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Q About garden fence...
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Message 1.Â
Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
In the deeds to my house both myself and neighbour are responsible for the boundary fence. When it was last replaced the neighbour (smiling assassin and new at that time) volunteered to pay for the replacement which was in good condition and only 3ft high. We negotiated a new height which although I was not totally happy with, agreed at 5ft, we are on a hill and this was 7ft on my side of the fence, cutting off alot of light, my neighbour wanted it to be 6ft higher making it 8ft on my side.
The neighbour wouldn't tell me when the builders were coming to replace the fence so I left the lock off my back gate. Quite by accident I was home when they came to replace the fence which was to be at the height the neighbour wanted and not what we had negotiated. The builders downed tools (I'd been at school with the company owner) who assured me don't worry zoomer this fence isn't going up until you agree.
To cut to the chase I was threatned by said neighbour that evening who quoted he had taken legal advise and I couldn't stop him from building a fence at the height he wanted, wanting to keep the peace I agreed to the original height. Which was then built.
The ajoining fence now with my neighbour has reached the point where it is close to falling down because of the climbers planted against it by the neighbour. It is also going rotton at the bottom because of soil piled against it to bed in the climbers.
As far as I'm concerned it can fall down, I've built a trellis in front leaving a gap of 1ft. I would benifit from it falling down and gain more light. I don't view it as my fence anymore as the neighbour owns it and if I had to replace it would now would only agree to a 3ft fence.
My Q is were do I stand legally can it just fall down or am I responsible for replacing a fence I don't want. -
Message 2
Posted by Obelixx (U2157162) on Sunday, 25th September 2011
You need proper legal advice so either consult a solicitor or go to the Citizens Advice Bureau. If you have a written agreement with your neighbour that shows he replaced the fence at his own cost and at his desired height that would surely count to its being his property and his responsibility - assuming common sense prevails in such matters. You could also get a witness statement from you old friend the builder.
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Message 3
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Sunday, 25th September 2011
You are standing in a minefield Zoomer and a costly one too as going to law can cost thousnads in the end. Many years back I had the same trouble where I lived then, I told the chap next door that a six foot fence in the prevailing winds would be down in a year. He got two years before it blew apart.
I then built a four foot fence with concrete posts exactly three inches inside my land with the posts on my side so he could not use them. After a lot of blustering, never to me mind he gave up and when I pass that house now I see from the road a concrete post fence still there.
If you cannot agree then build your own fence to the height you want on your land but make sure you note it on the deeds so he cannot claim the extra little bit.
Frank. -
Message 4
Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Sunday, 25th September 2011
I realise it's a bit of a minefield, you hear of some dreadful stories about fences and neighbours so I've tried to keep this low key, the last thing I want is a costly battle.
We don't have a written agreement. It was possibly 3 to 4 years ago when the fence was built so there is no proof of who owns it. To be fair I would happily share the cost to replace it with a fence 2ft lower, life is to short to fall out over a fence. The neighbours on the other side are fabulous we just replace the panels as needed and there are no problems.
I have built a strong free standing trellis using fencing posts in front of the fence and how the lands lies there is a concrete wall rising 2ft on my side which stops his garden falling into mine. Due to us being on a hill his garden is level with the top of the wall so there is a clear divide and the fence stands on this.
He hasn't approached me direct about replacing the fence but does alot of huffing and puffing when in the back garden. When I happen to be in mine which is most days I can sometimes hear him complaining to visitors which is somewhat intimidating because he's really rude. You should have heard the coments when I got my GH. I try to see the funny side of it, he looks quite rediculous pruning his climbers every other week in his flat cap on a ladder which puts him well above the fence and peering down on me. A few weeks ago refusing to be intimidated I donned a pair of builders bottom trousers to bend over the veg bed whilst I hoed which is totally out of character for me I'm usually quite mild and unchallenging.
Going to the CAB is a good idea, better to be prepared. -
Message 5
Posted by Palaisglide (U3102587) on Sunday, 25th September 2011
Yes Zoomer, being a six foot ex soldier who calls a spade a spade is very handy in those situations.
I would just put up my own fence on my own land and then say get out of that, luckily all my neighbours are lovely so no problems and our fences are dedicated anyway the south side and part of the back mine on the deeds and the rest opf the back and north side belongs to them.
I come cheap if you wish to borrow me to hang around in your garden making cutting remarks, they would prune your roses at the same time.
Frank. -
Message 6
Posted by Barney_pl (U13897738) on Sunday, 25th September 2011
Zoomer, your legal requirement is simply to maintain the boundary.
All you need to do is to put up fence posts on the boundary with three wires running horizontally, and that is enough to define the boundary. Wire netting would be better as it prevents unwanted access.
Discussion about the fence and its height or replacement is a separate, civil issue between neighbours. I'm not so sure of my facts on this one, but I think the legal height restriction applies to fences as well as to trees, so if the fence is higher than two metres on your side, you have the law on your side if you want to height reduced - a point ot bear in mind if and when when the neighbour decides to replace the fence. -
Message 7
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Monday, 26th September 2011
There may be a (local bye law?) legal limit of 6' to boundary fences, but if his side is only four feet, it is hard to know! Where that regulation is to be found, heaven only knows. It is not broken that often, if you look around, but fences do not grow; hedges may grow to the heavens.
Covenants, which are enforceable, may prescribe limits to fences or no fences at all.
More work for the solicitors. -
Message 8
Posted by jo4eyes (U13654107) on Monday, 26th September 2011
Hi Zoomer, I'd check your deeds again re any possible height restrictions between the 2 properties. I'd also check with local council in case any bi-laws etc re fence heights in your area. The usual height allowed is 2metres, but you can top that with trellis to increase the height for privacy/security reasons....................--------If it's supposed to be jointly maintained, then your neighbour doesnt have sole responsibility ro deciding what height/type of boundary it is................--Assuming, from your original post, you are not able to reach agreement on this, then erecting your own fence, on your property is an option. Ok you will loose light if he erects a taller one on his side, but sounds as if it would be better if you cant see/be seen. You would however be letting him have some of your land for free- is that what you want? -------You say that a taller fence would remove some of your light. Again there may be council restrictions re this if an old property. ------Possible compromise- one of those panels with trellis at the top- actually part of the panel. He gets height & you get a bit more light. Snag, they cost more & if the original fence has deteriorated in only 4years then he may not want/be able to replace it with good quality panels. -------If the existing fence falls down/causes damage to persons or propery, then as, unfortunately the co-owner, you could have others problems to deal with! Sorry. ---------BTW gardening in shade/part shade not too bad!......................Apologies for this style of typing- major keyboard (laptop dying) malfunction. J.
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Message 9
Posted by Twiggy (U3854938) on Monday, 26th September 2011
Zoomer, I don't profess to know anything about the height of fences except to say that following a complaint from my daughter's next door neighbour (not to her but to the Council), she was forced to reduce the height of bamboo screening she had erected. She is higher than her neighbour and he said it stopped his light. I would think your best bet is to consult your Planning Department who will be able to give you the correct info.
I think I am lucky that my adjoining neighbours are tolerant of my 6ft fence, plus 3ft of trellis, coverered with vine! -
Message 10
Posted by zoomer44 (U14019069) on Monday, 26th September 2011
There doesn't seem to be an easy solution.
The fence maybe older than 4yrs possibly 6yrs. When it was originally put up because said neighbour only paid lip service to the agreed height I did contact the local planning office, council and checked my deeds anticipating problems then.
There is a height restriction of 6ft, the deeds are old and I have the original one's. The fence is 5ft with 1ft of trellis on top, that's on his side on my side with the 2ft drop it's actually 8ft. The council wouldn't get involved in the dispute and off the record said if I could live with it that might be the better solution as battles can be costly and no one wins in the end. My solution was to let bamboo grow infront of the fence - not good and so I've replaced it with a trellis and climbers. I've been quite selective they aren't invasive.
I do appreciate the guy wants a totally inclosed garden, on the road side he's planted shrubs and tree's which need regular pruning to keep them inside his boundary. I checked the local bye laws and he can't build on top of that boundary wall because it boarders the public highway altough he's ignored the bye law ás it's also partly trellised higher than what is allowed. Information stored for future use
This maybe hard to believe it's not altogether about us not being able to reach an agreement the guy won't even enter into any sort of discusion. I've moved on, built a trellis and planted the garden accordingly but I'm not going to pay for a better fence to support his plants. My project for next year is to cover the patio area over head with a glass roof open on two sides and on the said neighbours side I'm thinking of a latted wood divide, I got some really good idea's from the Chelsea flower show which looked really doable.
I'll lose about 1ft behind the trellis and patio project but it means I can cut back any invading stuff coming througth the fence from the neighbour.
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