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I think a is more significant question to ask is why it matters, we are born onto a planet free to move, not caged in, a few build fences others are more welcoming. I prefer the later. The location of where we are born raised or live has in 2010 very little influence on us given the globalisation of world we are members of and the media we access, the older generation will protest but soon they will gone and the world will become our oyster

Welcome to planet Earth, enjoy a pint from Australia, a pizza from Italy and sweet and sour from Hong Kong, the best bits will survive the worst bits cached away in the vaults of history, now enjoy that pasty and think of the history in each mouth full, because that has more importance than events in 1337 to anyone walking planet earth in 2010

Nice try Graham but John Kirkhope has unearthed some very up-to-date constitutional facts in his research so far that you are simply not addressing:

Now being the good democrat that I'm sure you are why not join with me and the rest of the "gentle, thoughtful people" who would like to see a full public inquiry into the Duchy of Cornwall and its constitutional position.

Once that is out in the open -just a silly idea this- perhaps the people of Cornwall, via public debate and referendum, could decide its future.

Another interesting opinion column, yes why should we get stuck in the past, why should we cling to these relics. The question is one of importance Graham, why do people cling to the history of the Norman Conquest or the Domesday Book?

The answer Graham is it forms a part of history, the Duchy of Cornwall is the history of Cornwall. It makes Cornwall what it is today, it has provided a great fortune for the heir apparent to the throne from 1337 to this day. And provides a cornerstone of Cornish history. Well, why is the Black Prince important, well architecturally he had the castle at Restormel built and the Duchy palace in Losthwithiel too, from the times when he did live and hold court in Lostwithiel.

As you probably know the Black Prince was also the first Prince of Wales, do you think the Welsh have moved on from being a Principality? At the time the creation of the Duchy and the Principality signified the complex constitutional relationship between the centre and the periphery. It defined Cornwall and Wales as somewhere different to England, inextricably linked to the English Crown but nevertheless within the realm but not of the realm. It defined the ancient differences between the Britonnic Celts and the Anglo-Saxons, in a sense it was a sop to the last of the old breed of Britain, a constitutional nicety to differientiate between us and them, or as old English would have it themselves and the Wealas (of foreigners as it translated.) This demarcation is something that the Britons held dear as they do to this day.

My point is that the Black Prince is of historical significance to the people of Cornwall, it signified our difference and also an upgrade from the earlier Earldom of Cornwall. The Black Prince in himself does not hold any great significance, but the process that went on around him and because of him. The creation of the Duchy was the important moment and the important documents were the Duchy Charters that outlined the rights, responsibilities and rewards due to the heir apparent in return for some autonomy for the Cornish people. Essentially this is a story of history but in itself it is not history, the Duchy Charters were never revoked. The Duke of Cornwall still retains the right to the minerals of Cornwall, the fisheries, bono vacanta, the appointment of the Sherriff and a whole host of other matters. As you know east of the Tamar these privileges are held by the Crown. So in essence the Duchy Charters are not about ancient history, they are about Cornwall today.

Might I suggest that if you are so determined to banish this relic of history, why not start by asking if Charles will donate the millions of pounds worth of annual profits to charity, as guaranteed since the time of the Black Prince. While you there ask him how important the Duchy is?

'Are we not all African?' - getting ridiculous now, Mr Smith, throwing in that 麻豆官网首页入口lone Anglo-imperialist hoary old desperately week fall-back chestnut .
The cultural diversity that has manifested since those days across the surface of planet earth is one of the things human beings cherish the most, arising as it does from collective experiences enjoyed or endured from that earliest of all diaspora. It adds meaning and depth to our lives and bonds communities around the world. Why would you want to turn it to homogeneous soup other than to serve the greed fuelled interests of the multi-national corporate minority?

PS Your sycophantic and misleading pro-establishment regurgitations really take the digestive, Mr Smith.

A Monarchy not political?
A Republic not political?

What are the key differences between 'subject' and 'citizen', do you think?

Mr. Smith is not addressing them CornishDem because he can't. In fact no one from the EIS or their propoganda machine can. Until Cornwall gets the chance to settle this once and for all via a fair and legal court case, the sniping on both sides will continue.
You see Graham, your problem is this: We have the truth on our side, you don't. Every time you contradict the truth, you dig yourself a deeper hole.
You are raising various Cornish issues here. Please continue because you will/are losing the lot. Cornish activism has the truth. The EIS don't, and the truth ALWAYS comes out in the end.

E.I.S.? What nonsense. All we ever get from these fanatics are links to obscure websites, or their new "legal-eagle". Why don't they come out and stand in an election if they want recognition? Of course, silly me!, they do and Mebyon Kernow have never even come close to getting an M.P. elected.

I found a quote that sums it up for me.

"Time moves on and Cornish nationalism will not succeed by beating an antique drum and wallowing in medieval niceties."

Check the facts Slimlad. There's enough of them here already. You, like the others of your ilk refuse to take them on board and can only make pathetic comments like the above. There are none so blind as those who refuse to look.

MK ? Since when has recognition be anywhere near the top of their agenda ?

"Check the facts".? I have and found your "facts" sorely wanting.

Which facts are you referring to ?

What is a Nationalist Slimslad ? There are Welsh, Scottish and English Nationalists, yet these Countries are already recognised.
Cornwall is not, so why does that make all Cornish people Nationalists. Just because they want recognition of their Country to celebrate their different culture and Identity doesn't make them Nationalists surely ?
I look forward to your response.

"Let me make this quite clear - I am NOT comparing any of Cornwall's nationalists with Osama Bin Laden."

Even though after obvious deliberation you've specifically chosen Bin Laden as the character you'll use in your comparison with Cornish Nationalists?


" I would describe those nationalists I have met as generally gentle, thoughtful people who are genuinely puzzled by any reluctance to share their beliefs."

How do those gentle, thoughtful Cornish people deal with all that puzzlement their beliefs cause then to suffer?
They don't.
They don't because you have decided alone that all historical, cultural, constitutional, political and legal knowledge about Cornwall is part of some Cornish belief system. But you want people to swallow that so you can continue to the point of this blog - that ancient rivalries and religious clashes in the Middle East are comparable to the Cornish dilemma and if we don't all let by-gones be by-gones then the Cornish just might hijack an Air South West or four and fly them into Truro cathedral... ?

"Bin Laden's campaign of international terrorism is based on his belief that the Western world's Crusades (1088-1314) never ended. He is still trying to fight those wars and refuses to consider that the world might have moved on.

After all, it's not as if there was an umpire or referee who blew a whistle at the end and declared one side or the other the "winner." As with so much of history, things just sort of fizzled out when everyone got tired of or bored with all the slaughter. "

Bin Laden is a silly Billy and shouldn't cling on to historical grievences and so the silly Cornish people shouldn't either.
And to all those budding CNLAers out there, remember too much slaughter can lead to boredom - take some toys with you next time you march to London..


"So here's my question (or questions): at what point did we move on from The Black Prince's investiture as the first Duke of Cornwall in 1337 to the modern day Duchy of Cornwall? If the answer is "we haven't" then what would it take to convince you that the Black Prince is no longer relevant (at least, not to most people?)"

At what point did we move on from one date to another?
Think about it. You're presented with a start date and a finish date of a constitutional construction that's been in existence for 1000 years and Graham asks "at what point did we move on?"

What is a territorial possession of the English Crown supposed to move on 'to' Graham? 'Not being one any more'? - because the cash from the tin ran out a while back and there's far more to be made from property development these days?

Should the Channel Islands also sort their 'moving on' issues out too?

Wales?

And if you haven't moved on?

Then you're in need of some Black Prince rehabilitation thereapy until you're fully convinced that it was just a silly belief.
You were just a psychotic English person after all.


"And to those who seek to turn the clock back - why stop at 1337? Why not campaign for an earlier start? Are we not all African?"

The clock in the Duchy of Cornwall office ticks bang up to date.
The vast collection of acts and statutes that protect this 'private estate' from the usual strains and stresses of the private sector probably sit neatly on the shelf below.

Your understanding of the Cornish dilemma seems about par with the average man in the street.. In Africa.

Have a referendum. Put it to the vote.

Time moves on and Cornish nationalism will not succeed by beating an antique drum and wallowing in medieval niceties."

Yeah, love it and the reply I expected. Ask fair questions and you can't answer. I think it's time you moved on Slimlad and others. Trolls, who offer no intelligent answers on the Cornish question threads other than truly pathetic replies.

And just the abuse I expected when a Cornish "nationalist" is faced with the truth. What could be a better test of the will of the people than a referendum? Because,(as you well know), the people of Cornwall would never vote for the "break from England". Frustrating, isn't it?

LOL ! ! ! A referendum ???? LOL ! ! !

I've never heard of a referendum on the truth. Lol ! ! !

If you can't make a point with abuse, then use ridicule. Again I say. Use the ballot-box. Go to the voters and show them how different Cornwall is. How better off Cornwall could be as an independent Nation. Until then all the legal arguments,archaic law and ancients rights are just so much hot air.

You say this, One-Cornwall:

"But you want people to swallow that so you can continue to the point of this blog - that ancient rivalries and religious clashes in the Middle East are comparable to the Cornish dilemma and if we don't all let by-gones be by-gones then the Cornish just might hijack an Air South West or four and fly them into Truro cathedral... ?"

Yet I have read the massacre after the "Prayer-Book Rebellion" compared to the Holocaust? Even described as the "Cornish Genocide"?

Slimslad - I'm not trying to be abusive, it's just your lack of understanding and multiples thereof over many years. There are many ancient laws that are valid today. The Duchy charters are among them. If these Cornish laws are extinct, then prove it. The Establishment can't. It's as simple as that.
If you think otherwise, show us the documentation that says Cornwall is de jure a part of England.

"Trolls"? "Pathetic replies"? There's me thinking that you were being abusive? Silly me! I don't need to show you any "documentation". It is obvious my "lack of understanding" means that I am unable to comply with your request. I won't ask you to "prove" that Cornwall is a "country", however. We would be buried under links to Athelstan, the Duchy, Stanneries, Foreshores and all the rest of the "proof" that the British Government completely ignores.

Yes indeed proof as you correctly state that the government ignores.

Why ignore our proof though if they could simply prove it wrong. The simple answer being that it is not wrong. This leaves the establishment with only one option; ignore the situation whilst pouring on the "Cornwall = English county for a thousand years" propaganda.

Leave him CornishDem. Slimlad's lost the argument hook, line and sinker. Ive a much more important thing to do. I've got an itch.
My last word.

"My last word."?

If only that were true.

"Why ignore our proof though if they could simply prove it wrong".

They ignore your "proof" because your "proof" has been tested and found to be complete nonsense.

"On 6 October 2008 the government said, 鈥淐ornwall is an administrative county of England, electing MPs to the UK Parliament, and is subject to UK legislation. It has always been an integral part of the Union. The Government have no plans to alter the constitutional status of Cornwall鈥� (Hansard 6 October 2008 column 154W)

That's what they stated but they didn't provide any evidence to support this position. Equally they don't disprove the evidence we provide.

It's really quite simple for governments to state whatever to be a fact. Governments all around the world do it even (are you ready for this?) if it's not true....

It's every citizens responsibility to search behind what governments state to be true in order to get as close as possible to the reality, or would you prefer that we all just lie back and lap up every word we are told?

Slimslad, you strike me as someone who likes to be told what to think without needing any evidence. I am not.

"Slimslad, you strike me as someone who likes to be told what to think without needing any evidence. I am not."

I am afraid you are wrong there, TheCornishDem.

But you are allowed your opinion on me, even an opinion based on scant evidence.

Using the same formula, you strike me as someone who has seized onto some "evidence" and has interpreted this "evidence" as Holy Writ,(God bless the Lord Angarrack and the Arch-Angel Peyton)

Angarracks-Angels change can only happen if we are sincere, Cornwall is not Berwick-on-tweed or ever likely to be but that does not prevent us being distinctive, this all or nothing view of Cornish nationalism is self defeating as you start from an impossible position seeking a move to less acute compromise meaning you will always be disappointed, people need to mange expectations and set achievable goals and move forward one step at a time

Mr Smith is 100% correct to ask why Cornish nationalists all sing from the same song sheet using exactly the same script often highlighting massive holes in the knowledge within the movement, if we want to return back in time why select the brief time when Cornwall was a remote Celtic nation, what makes it more important than any other time such the big bang, it seems like an obvious question that needs answering, the so called Celtic nation is impossible to answer without acknowledging Devonians has the same rights as Cornwall. Cornwall is unique but mainly because of how remote we were until the railways arrived

I blame King Arthur for bring the realms of fiction into Cornish history

"It has been claimed that the unwritten British Constitution is a refusal by people in power to communicate to those subject to that power the extent of that power and the rights available to prevent and/or effectively remedy the abuse of that power. The pressure group Revived Cornish Stannary Parliament believes that the unwritten British constitution constitutes a conspiracy against the British public.The Cornish Stannary Parliament and the unwritten British Constitution]
This is not a widely-held view."

You appear to have attracted some fellow Anglo-Imperialist travellers, Mr Smith. The best of luck to you - not the most savoury of individuals to be keeping company with.
Why anyone would so vehemently, vituperatively and venomously wish to deny Cornwall's right to national self-determination remains a mystery - could it be due to a lack of education in these matters from an early age?
Cornwall will, nevertheless, determine Cornwall's destiny.

"vehemently, vituperatively and venomously"?

You missed out viciously and vile and in your case, verbiage.

Point proven.

Pointless, provocative post?

Not at all, Slimslad.

Perhaps you'd feel more at home here:



They seem to think and talk a lot like you over there in Engerland.

Perfectly predictable post.

Yes, Slimslad.
And a perfectly predictable 'Slimslad' response.

I was quite enjoying that little game, AccurateChronometer. Although I imagine you take yourself very seriously? A lot of single-issue individuals seem to do that.

You appear to have no idea, 'Slimslad'.