Picture of the week
Do you believe in miracles? We've been asking that question of members of the public and you can hear what they said in reply on Sunday morning's programme. The resurrection is the central claim and the key event of historic Christianity; it's also most famous miracle of them all. But we weren't expecting one passer-by to tell our reporter, Eamonn Keirnan, that is transparent and verifiable evidence that miracles do exist.
Comments
It looks like a funny handshake to me, a two and a half one or is DIP asking Bertie "how old is your granny".
Pardon my ignorance of Christian theology but is it universally accepted among all Christians that the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the greatest miracle of all? How does the virgin birth compare? Do miracles have a hierarchy? For instance, how does the feeding of 5000 with five loaves of bread and two fish compare? Wouldn't all miracles be considered the same because each is proof of God's existance?
As everyone knows, symbolism is everything in Northern Ireland politics.
It doesn't matter if we live in a United Ireland or a United Kingdom; f the people aren't united we don't stand a chance either way.
Given, therefore, that our main obstacle to progress is sectarianism.... and given the importance of symbolism (in our little country, where prople are afraid to think for themselves)....
This photo (and others like it) will do more to heal our country than any decommissioning, any power-sharing, anything else ever could.
BUT this is only so if we let it happen. we cannot wish for such things to happen, only to turn around and dismiss them cynically when they do...
Whatever ulterior motives exist... no matter what proverbial gun was put to the head of Dr Paisley in Downing Street.... We have to welcome these symbols... symbols of peace... symbols of untiy.... symbols of mutual respect and recognition.... (do I sound like john Hume or what!)... and we must let them do their healing work.
Who said the resurrection was the greatest? The post says "most famous" . . .
Verity #5
I think the blog is completely explicit and speaks for itself;
"The resurrection is the central claim and the key event of historic Christianity."
Whether or not it is or is not the most famous miracle is besides the point.
By the way, in the new testament, wasn't Lazarus supposed to have arisen from the dead as well?
From Wikipedia;
Lazarus, also called Lazarus of Bethany or Lazarus of the Four Days was a man who lived in the town of Bethany ("Lazarus from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha", John 11:1). The sisters are immediately identified: "Mary was the one who had anointed the Lord with perfumed oil and dried his feet with her hair; it was her brother Lazarus who was ill." So the sisters sent word to Jesus that the one he loved was ill. Jesus tarried where he was, and when he arrived, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days, and Martha reproached him. (However, it should be noted that Jesus had only delayed his travel by two days, implying that even if he had set out immediately, Lazarus would have died.) When Jesus assured her that Lazarus would rise, she took his meaning for the resurrection on Judgment Day, to which he replied, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (11:25–26 KJV). In the presence of a crowd of Jewish mourners, Jesus had the stone rolled away from the tomb and bid Lazarus to come out, and so he did, still wrapped in his grave-cloths. Jesus then called for His followers (friends and family alike) to remove the grave-cloths. The narrator claims many other Jews were convinced of Jesus' divinity after visiting Lazarus, but says no more of the individual. The miracle, the longest coherent narrative in John aside from the Passion, is the climax of John's "signs" and leads directly to the decision of Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin to kill Jesus.
People rose from the dead all the time back then. Jesus himself was thought to be JTB or Elijah raised from the dead. Jairus's daughter, even though no actual "miracle" occurred was already being *mourned* before her raising. The widow of Nain, that chap that fell asleep while Paul was preaching, etc etc. It's no biggie.
Likewise, virgin births were pretty much de rigeur for demigod figures, and they didn't have DNA paternity testing, so Joseph was off the hook.
The feeding of the 5000 - the *real* miracle would be that 5000 Middle Easterners would have found themselves half way up a hill without *anyone* having a few pittas stuffed up his galabaya, other than one wee chap.
Paradoxically, the miracles make Christianity *less* believable. They are at best irrelevant. The resurrection is in the same class - pointless.
Ive been trying to follow this, but mark isnt making any sense.
Mark said that Will said the resurrection is the greatest of all miracles. Mark said it cant be, since a miracle is a miracle.
Verity points out that Will did not say "greatest" - e said "most famous".
Mark replies: the blog speaks for itself: The resurrection is the central claim and key event of christianity.
But that's not the same thing as saying its the greatest miracle! That statement by will is correct. The resurrection is the most significant claim made by christianity, which is why easter is the most important season of the year for christians. More significant even than chirstmas.
The virgin birth and the resurrection are both miracles. Neither miracle is greater than the other.
But one miracle is more significant (that's not the same thing as "greater"). One is more significant than the other because the bible claims more for the resurrection of Christ.
I'm not saying I agree with the claim - im just pointing out the logic here. Mark has misunderstood a key distinction. Not for the first time.
Funny looking handshake indeed. I reckon they are establishing what rank of mason they are.
helenanne smith #7
I think you are making an issue over semantics and I'm not going to quibble about it. That seems to be a favorite way to start a pointless argument around here. Yes my statement "greatest" was not precisely what the original blog entry said. That's what I inferred it meant, you are free to come to another conclusion.
If you want to see a miracle, come around my office at around a quarter to five in the afternoon on any workday when the dead come back to life.
helenanne i agree with you. The last resort of a guy like Mark is to plead "semantics", even though he's the one who started the argument about the meaning of words! either he's no idea what the word "semantics" means or he can't actually follow the argument you replied with. Needless to say he will dismiss both you and me as quibblers simply because we've challenged his original quibbling with the post.
Now I know why his office colleagues dash him at 5pm!
Jane Grey, I do not dismiss you and helenanne as quibblers over semantics. Nothing so trivial or insignificant. When I dismiss, I dismiss big time. By the way, you never want to find out what my LAST resort is. Dismissing the insufferable is only my first resort.
Well done Mark, you've managed to lead a perfectly serious conversation about politics and the miraculous into this nonsense.
kel #12
Glad to be of service. Besides, that's where they all wind up anyway with or without my help. What's your problem?
sorry to break in...
Dylan Dog
You asked on this thread, below, if the bible condones rape during war.
/blogs/ni/2007/03/primate_of_homophobia.html
I have now posted you an answer.
sincerely
PB