England produce show of pride
Any win would do for England before the start of the match in Auckland, and although they made hard work of it, at least they reversed the trend of the , and the series remains alive.
New Zealand were reduced to 95-6 after being put in on a good surface, despite Eden Park’s notoriously short boundaries restricted further by the rope, and had Jacob Oram been given out lbw by when only on five, they would have been snuffed out cheaply.
But he survived and combined with Daniel Vettori to add 74 vital runs, with Oram scoring 88 from 91 balls, including four sixes. The bowler to suffer the most was Dimitri Mascarenhas, recalled by England at the expense of Ravi Bopara - he was hit for 55 runs from seven overs, and Paul Collingwood erred in bowling him one more over than was necessary.
Stuart Broad, who has a very good series so far, was the pick of England's attack, flogging himself into a very strong breeze to take 3-32, although15 came from his final over.
England's batting was jittery, once again. Phil Mustard was almost run out from the first ball of the innings, and after a couple of lusty blows, attempted a needless quick single to Vettori at mid-off, and was beaten by a direct hit - England’s seventh run out of the series.
I still have worries about Alastair Cook and Ian Bell batting together in this form of the game, and after a string of 14 dot balls, Cook became frustrated and holed out at mid-on - again, a completely unnecessary wicket.
Bell, however, mixed sweetly-timed defensive shots straight to fielders with high-risk aerial blows down the ground, and the scoreboard started to move. Kevin Pietersen played second fiddle, but both were mesmerised when Vettori took the ball.
Bell might have got a little inside edge to the ball that trapped him lbw for 73 and certainly his reaction, kicking his bat in anger, suggested that he had received a bad one, but Vettori’s deceptive change of pace had created his error of judgement in the first place.
From 138-2, England slipped to 149-4 when Pietersen was despatched by Mr Rauf, lbw to Vettori for 41 despite being well forward. The ball was straight and would probably have hit half-way up middle stump. Five years ago, umpires would not have considered giving it out but, thanks to Hawkeye, times have changed.
Suddenly New Zealand knew they were in with a sniff, but up stepped England captain Collingwood to take the game by the scruff of the neck.
He took a number of chances, but rode his luck before taking complete control. With Owais Shah as his partner, Collingwood added 80 from just 67 balls to restore some pride and confidence within his dressing room.
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Good to see that England have profited from JA's razor-sharp analysis and Tony Ferney's incisive comments!
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I have always been of the opinion that Alistair Cook is not an ODI player. He is firmly a Test player, and that is what he should be doing. The 14 dot balls Aggers mentioned would be slayed by the likes of Australia.
Why doesn't anyone notice or listen to such an observation?
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Better performance from england, real clinical finishing by captain collingwood.
I still have serious reservations about cook in one day cricket- he is not an attacking cricketer by nature. I am worried that playing him in the one day arena will affect his excellent test form.
As good a player as he is I would not play him in one day cricket.
I would open with Wright & mustard although not international class, they should get the innings off to a flyer which is the route we need to go..
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I worry that by playing Cook with Mustard at the top of the innings in the ODIs has meant that Mustard feels that he has to take an overly aggressive stance to counter Cook's natural game. In the t20, despite the shorter format, Mustard looked more relaxed with Wright taking a share of the aggression. One option may be to move Cook down the order in ODI filling the Hussey role with OZ of steadying the ship and accumalating when the fielding restrictions are relaxed.
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I think that England can turn this around. We need to dig deep, deeper than my mate Damo needs to dig when it is his round, to clinch an unlikely series win.
I still have reservations about Broad, i am not convinced he has had a great series. While he is certainly the future of English cricket, he needs to step up to the plate right now.
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Good quick response Jonathan but do I detect (again!) a reluctance to give due praise to Collingwood? 3 wickets and 70 runs can't be bad
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there was no "might" about it. Bell did hit the ball when he was given out lbw
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Well thank God for that!!
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Well said Aggers, I agree with everyone else, I'm unsure about Cook as an ODI player. He is a fantastic test player, but I'm unsure if he is attacking enough for the shorter form of the game, we need to bring in someone else to open, im unsure if wright is good enough at the moment to open the batting, he doesn't seem to make big scores when he bats at the top of the innings, but when he made his debut for england batting at 7 he made 50, so I think he should bat furthur down. Any ideas anyone for who else could open?
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I think an all round better performance, funny to notice in the Odi's the team chasing has won. I agree that Ideally Cook should not open in this format. How is strauss looking after his time here at domestic. Is Liam plunkett available in place of Mascharenas?
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I think people need to give Ali Cook a break. It was only a year ago people were saying that Bell was too defensive, didnt have the shots, and had not place in the OD team. Yet he has developed his game and has turned into one of the most consistent ODI batters.
Cook is young and will develop, he has the natural talent to do so. Also, you cant have a team of sloggers, you need the likes of Cook and Bell who can keep their wickets and the scoreboard ticking over.
He is sitll just 23 and has a rate of 30. He will turn out to be world class in ALL forms of the game
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Cook needs to be persisted with.
Who else is there in England with his talent? No one.
Without Tresco, he's the only decent opening batsman we have.
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How about Mal Loye opening? He's used to opening, and in my opinion was unfairly cast out of the World Cup squad last year. Wright, Mascaranas et al are more suited to the latter part of the innings. Cook going down the order may work, it did Strauss some good before he went back up to open again at the World Cup. Pietersen, Bell & Colly at 3-5 is a solid middle order I feel.
Broad is worth perservering with (work in progress), and Sidebottom is becoming Mr Reliable with the ball at the moment. A genuine spinning all-rounder is needed - Swann is not the answer. Thoughts on who could do this - Rashid of Yorkshire / England Lions..?
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so wheres all the people crying out for dimi and wright..........what contribution did they make?????
prior to this others questioned bell, kp, shah and anderson............didnt do much wrong did they.
and no doubt this makes colly the worlds best bat does it???
people on here are so knee jerk it is unbelieveable. some wanted vaughan and strauss back in the team and then call cook just a test specialist.
England have only two problems from being a top drawer ODI side and thats the top 2 spots combined with the issue of trying to create a gilly rather than being happy with a good keeper first and foremost who could bat as low as 9, if you were to look at dimi and freddie (when back) as bowlers first that can bat a bit, and throw swann and broad in the mix also.
Balance is the key to any side, and once that is established continuity will breed betting running between wickets and then stable fielding positions as a result will lead to more run out attempts being succesful.
I'd like to see Bell open and KP in at 3. bopara and shah batting in their right positions then colly at 6.
dimi 7 and the best keeper at 8. 3 specialist bowlers regardless of batting ability. if that includes fred he can go in at 7 and the rest roll down.
without fred i would have
BELL
WRIGHT(not convinced he is much more than a slugger but on the tour so use him, position most up for grabs)
KP
BOPARA
SHAH
COLLY
DIMI
MUSTARD(as he is on this tour although READ or FOSTER for me).
BROAD
SIDERS
ANDERSON
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When ever someone has a bad game or bad luck, we are always wanting to ask about a potential replacement!
Cook/Bell are class and the future. Maybe shuffle them in the order but don't disgard.
Dimi is going to be good same games and attacked others. We really shouldn't expect match winning contributions from everyone all the time! Reality check please.
The bowlers for once bowled in good areas, they SHOULD be doing that more consisently at their pace but looks like two bad performances have concentrated the mind.
Fielding also very good today.
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If you want 2 agressive batsmen at the top why not bring Ambrose in as a specialist batsman if you don't want to play cook. However Cook could do better down the order.
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Don't change a winning team. How quickly you forget that Cook was the highest scorer in the debacle that was the first one day match.
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Why cant we consider Bell to open instead of Cook? He's got the technique and then move Wright in lower down the order.
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I am concerned when Cook and Bell - who are both good players - have to bat together. What I can't understand is why we can't introduce some flexibility to the order? So, if Mustard goes cheaply, in comes Pietersen to ensure there's still an aggressive player at the crease. On the other hand, if Cook is dismissed first, in comes Bell.
I realise that I'll be slated by people saying 'we have to look at Australia and they never shuffle their order about'. This is true, but sadly England do not have an all-round No. 3 like Ricky Ponting to call on.
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Only England can get thumped, go 2-0 down, squeak out a marginal win and the headline is 'show of pride'. Why are we constantly OK with performances of abject mediocrity from, overpaid, mediocre talent without an ounce of grit, determination, pride and fortitude?
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I would agree that a genuine spinning all rounder is a must for this England team and I also agree that the answer lies with Adil Rashid from Yorkshire. He has had a couple of good seasons of county and just look at his figures from the lions tour with bat and ball.
He's also bound to have a bit of character about him in having to put up with the likes of Hoggy and Gough and Yorkshire!
One last thing, Tresco has to come back and open. Then we will be ace!
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Great performance from the lads although I am concerned with the slow start to an innings it is like watching paint dry. Cook is a good test player but ODI's i'm not convinced. What England need to do is open with someone like KP and get the innings off to a flying start. Look at Juyasariya of Sri Lanka. You have to take advantage of the power plays and take the attack to the opposition. Although this was a good performance we must build on this and get some consistency back.
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Richard (no 13)
You make a fair point about Loye. He WAS unlucky to miss out on selection for the World Cup, having featured in a winning squad in the CB Series in Australia.
If you look around the counties there are very few examples of attacking opening batsmen who we can call on as cover for the one-day side.
The dearth of really good young one-day batsmen in the counties really shows - it's fair to say that we have not a single spare specialist batsman in a squad of 16 out in New Zealand, but we do have two spinners (neither needed today) and a whole clutch of all-rounders.
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A good one to win. The umpiring definitely went New Zealand's way and that made it even better: no moaning about umpires, just get out there and win it anyway.
It's hard to know why the sudden change. Neither Luke Wright nor Dimitri Mascarenhas batted and neither made much of a contribution with the ball - in fact, they were both expensive and wicketless - but they did seem to help to energise the fielding. Whatever it was though, England played with some purpose and showed that they wanted to win. The side *can* play well, which makes it all the more frustrating that, at times, they are so awful.
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Great performance from the lads although I am concerned with the slow start to an innings it is like watching paint dry. Cook is a good test player but ODI's i'm not convinced. What England need to do is open with someone like KP and get the innings off to a flying start. Look at Juyasariya of Sri Lanka. You have to take advantage of the power plays and take the attack to the opposition. Although this was a good performance we must build on this and get some consistency back.
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I think people are judging Cook harshly, don't forget he scored an unbeaten century in the 2nd warm up game proving he can score quickly. Although he may not be the best person to open the batting.
Let's focus on the positives from today, with Bell and Collingwood looking good and finally a one day win!
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MR AGNEW MUST BE A HUGE FAN OF MR RAUF..HE ALWAYS SEEMS TO MENTION HIS NAME MORE THEN ANY OTHERS..ESP WHEN HE MAKES A MISTAKE..OR SHOULD I SAY WHAT MR AGNEW PERCIEVES AS A MISTAKE
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Bell will not get another 50 in this one day series. KP up to three and bring Keysey in for the summer. I'm sorry that is now just one ton in 62 one day knocks. And 15 fifties. Not good enough. Stats don't lie - these are the reasons why Vaughan and Hussein did not cut it in the one day game.
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Bell out for good I'm afraid - another 50 - yet no ton. One ton in 62 knocks - not good enough. That's why Hussein & Vaughan were dumped from the the one day team. Keysey back in for the summer.
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'He (Collingwood)took a number of chances, but rode his luck before taking complete control.' did he? from what i saw colly played a superb calculated knock without taking many chances at all. peaking towards the end it was the type of innings that left handed chap from australia used to play a few years back to finish off many a game including a world cup one against england in sa. why do us english always have to temper things to such an extent, yes we were rubbish in the first couple of games, but now our captain has played a cracking knock...why not focus on that aggers? to the most improved international cricketer of the past 2 years, well played colly!
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Warney in post 28. Bell and Cook have already made ODI centuries in their short careers, already making them better one day players than Vaughan.
Jayawardene and Sangakkara aren't exactly explosive, they leave that side of the game to Jayasuriya, but they are still brilliant one day players.
This is the time to go with Cook and Bell, whilst there is still three years to go until the World Cup
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Robert Key in for Ian Bell?
What a load of nonsense. To be honest the only batsman good enough to challenge our top order for a place in the team at the moment is Trescothick
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England played positively and purposefully. Led all the way by Captain Courageous, Who really led from the front. But lets not all forget none of it would be possible without the solid platform laid by Bell. Well Done though performance wise - much needed.
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That Ian Bell has just one century, yet averages 36.4 (higher than many bigger names) and has so many 50s suggests consistency in his returns.
Do we drop players for being consistent?
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THIS MATCH SHOWS THAT ENGLAND HAS DETERMINATION TO SHOW COMPTITIVE SERIES AND KEEP INTEREST ALIVE FOR ALL CRICKET LOVING PEOPLE
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That Ian Bell has just one century, yet averages 36.4 (higher than many bigger names) and has so many 50s suggests consistency in his returns.
Do we drop players for being consistent?
Incidentally, his best results come against:
Pakistan - 7 matches, average 66
India, - 10 matches, average 56
Australia - 8 matches, average 40
It looks like he scores his runs against strong teams and does not pad his average with easy runs against the likes of Bangladesh (1 match, 0 runs) or Kenya (1 match, 16 runs)
What is our criterion for failure here???
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Okay this is a good result but we still need to look at where we go wrong which is the top of the order. I have no idea where englands obsession ( and obsession is not too strong a word) for having the wicketkeeper as an opener. We don't have an Adam Gilchrist, can we just please accept that and actually have a proper opener. I agree that Alistair Cook is not an ODI player so I would like to see Rob Key given ago in ODI's Like Pietersen he hits the ball hard and is not a nurdler like several others in our side. until Marcus Trescothic is ready to come back Ian Bell will have to open the batting. So the line up should be Key, Bell, Pietersen, Shah, Collingwood, Bopara/Mascrenhas, Matt Prior (yes he should be keeping because he is our best batsman who can keep) Swann, Broad, Sidebottom, Anderson
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'He (Collingwood)took a number of chances, but rode his luck before taking complete control.' did he? from what i saw colly played a superb calculated knock without taking many chances at all. peaking towards the end it was the type of innings that left handed chap from australia used to play a few years back to finish off many a game including a world cup one against england in sa. why do us english always have to temper things to such an extent, yes we were rubbish in the first couple of games, but now our captain has played a cracking knock...why not focus on that aggers? to the most improved international cricketer of the past 2 years, well played colly!
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Warney? Dump Bell? Utter rubbish. He is class, and averages 36 in his short ODI career - marginally less than Trescothick and more than Collingwood. Ok, fine, he needs more hundreds - but GIVE HIM TIME. A settled team, with players that know their roles WILL get results. People need to grow into their positions. How many hundreds did Collingwood have at this stage of his career? and what was his average?
After 62 games he averaged 33.02, with 1 hundred and 7 fifties. His strike rate was 73.
Bell after 62 games, average of 36.39, 1 hundred, 14 fifties. Strike rate 72.
Similarly with Cook - he has played 24 matches. YOU CANT JUDGE AN ODI CAREER ON 24 MATCHES! Mal Loye? People on these boards are in dire need of a reality check.
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We need someone like cook to stay in and construct an innings - the desire to score 'a la sri lanka's world cup winning team' at the beginning of the innings can be disastrous. Teams should build an innings and go for it late on instaed of being out of the game at something like 75 for 4 but off 10 overs - quick scoring but pointless as too many wickets are down.
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Being a Pomme and watching the action from my new base in NZ it was good to see a rather comfortable win for England (atlast). I don't understand the critisism of Alistair Cook. He is a certain pick for the test team and the one day events add to his experience and batting skills. Who will replace him (the rather unskilled Bopara, I should hope not). When the likes of Simon Jones and Flintoff return to the fore our Ashes team will be complete and the one dayers give each player some good batting skills and not expect them to make tons for the test team without batting practice. Good on you England, lets win the next 3 and then the tests are ours.
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I can't remember a time when the England team ever really went for it. There must surely be enough natural hitters and timers of a ball to put pressure on the opposition. The real problem however is the bowling. We just don't seem to have players who can consistently put the ball where they want to put it. Surely that is down to technique and practice. Application and endeavour is what is required.......and Well Done to Collingwood - what a gutsy little player he is!
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ed..you must have been watching a different game!
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oh aggers do stop it!! no, i'm afraid it was the same game just a different (more accurate) view. just what were the chances he took and when did he ride his luck any more than he needed to in order to win the game in the way he did?
by the way, do you agree colly is the most improved international player of the past 2 years?
ed
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Personally I think that Bell & Key would be a cracking opening partnership with Strauss coming in at 4. With Cook in at 3 should an early wicket fall or KP at the fall of the first wicket after a good opening partnership i.e. over 75 runs. This would mean that Shah would have to go - but be useful should a player become injured my XI:
Key
Bell
Cook/KP
Strauss
KP/Cook
Colly
Wright/Masca
Mustard
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson
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England are, man for man, probably the better side in this series. New Zealand though are specialists in getting a lot out of more technically limited players. Their pride was hurt after the two T20 defeats and they came out all guns blazing at us. However, we shouldn't be surprised if England do complete the comeback and win. The two changes in the side that were made for this game were basically sound and possibly more influential than seemed at first sight. In the first two games, catches were missed, the fielding was not good and the malaise affected everyone. In this game though the fielders went at it with gusto, that helped the catches to stick and seeing that got the bowlers and batsmen going. Even though their bowling contribution was negligible, Mascarenhas and Wright - down to bat at 7 & 8 where they are most effective - helped set the standard early in the field.
Listening to the game, Anderson was bowling poorly at the start, but got a lucky wicket. Even so, at 40-1 you felt that New Zealand were threatening to ride out the storm and get away from England. We desperately needed a wicket and we got one from another not terribly threatening Anderson delivery and Collingwood took a real blinder, followed quickly by a very good catch from Mascarenhas. What was important was that it was the fielders who did their stuff and the whole side was lifted as a result.
Now, England need to come out and to be just as positive again. If we win the 4th match the series will be there for the taking and the blow to the Black Caps' moral will be tremendous before the Tests where they know that they will need a superhuman performance to hold even an England side at half power.
Incidentally, I keep reading "we need Trescothick", "we need Freddy". Forget them. It's possible, probable even that neither will ever play for England again. We might as well say: "we need Simon Jones". They aren't available and we should not plan on them EVER being available. If one or more of them are, great, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
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England are, man for man, probably the better side in this series. New Zealand though are specialists in getting a lot out of more technically limited players. Their pride was hurt after the two T20 defeats and they came out all guns blazing at us. However, we shouldn't be surprised if England do complete the comeback and win. The two changes in the side that were made for this game were basically sound and possibly more influential than seemed at first sight. In the first two games, catches were missed, the fielding was not good and the malaise affected everyone. In this game though the fielders went at it with gusto, that helped the catches to stick and seeing that got the bowlers and batsmen going. Even though their bowling contribution was negligible, Mascarenhas and Wright - down to bat at 7 & 8 where they are most effective - helped set the standard early in the field.
Listening to the game, Anderson was bowling poorly at the start, but got a lucky wicket. Even so, at 40-1 you felt that New Zealand were threatening to ride out the storm and get away from England. We desperately needed a wicket and we got one from another not terribly threatening Anderson delivery and Collingwood took a real blinder, followed quickly by a very good catch from Mascarenhas. What was important was that it was the fielders who did their stuff and the whole side was lifted as a result.
Now, England need to come out and to be just as positive again. If we win the 4th match the series will be there for the taking and the blow to the Black Caps' moral will be tremendous before the Tests where they know that they will need a superhuman performance to hold even an England side at half power.
Incidentally, I keep reading "we need Trescothick", "we need Freddy". Forget them. It's possible, probable even that neither will ever play for England again. We might as well say: "we need Simon Jones". They aren't available and we should not plan on them EVER being available. If one or more of them are, great, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
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Am I missing something here, hasn't the Colonel's keeping been outstanding during this series. Gilchrist he won't be, but when Warne and Ramprakash tell you he's the nearest thing to it and the best keeper/batsman in the country maybe they are better judges than most of us. Gotta be given time, and will develop into a test keeper who will get valuable runs at 7.
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Itis encouraging to see England was able to win this onedayer; thanks to the good knock of the skipper,P.Collingwood and I.Bell, and to the good bowling of S.Broad.All that is said, there remains a question to the reliability and resilience of the England team.There is no one who seems to shore up when slide of wickets fall at a stretch either in the ODI or Test match. That is a
matter needs to be addressed.
Look at the Australian side, there is generally one who comes in to anchor the side when many others fail, and then their tail too lift them up.
England need to have a bowler like that of the retired G. MCGrath or the present Australian S.Clark who looks a clone of G.McGrath. They both ball most of the time on the spot and rarely waywardly though they might not be fast, but they prove to be very effective and rewarding. At least the young England Bowlers could learn mould themselves in that pattern and learn from them.
anton,J.
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going back to the opening batsman thing in ODI, we should have Mal Loye come back, that series in australia he did pretty good as the pinch hitter and could be the type of player england need to be aggressive at the start and flow from there.
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I think that England can turn this around. We need to dig deep, deeper than my mate Damo needs to dig when it is his round , to clinch an unlikely series win.
I still have reservations about Broad, i am not convinced he has had a great series. While he is certainly the future of English cricket, he needs to step up to the plate right now.
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Warney has clearly shown a complete lack of cricket knowledge by saying Bell should be dropped... Stupid idea. And stop giving Cook a hard time, let him play and let him develop. Serioulsy, Key / Loye?? What planet do you live on. Talk about taking 3 steps backwards... Have you forgotten Cook scored 140 off 138 balls in a warm up??
I do reckon we need to look at the order - maybe its time use the Colonel like most countries use their wickies and have him in at 7 / 8??
Bell is the best player England have. Give it a couple of years and the stats will show a lot more than one century to his name...
Our problem is our middle / late order do not generally score enough runs when the top order fail. Look at the Aussies - if their top 5 fail, people like Lee step up to the plate... Hopefully Broad can start to fill that role, he;s going to be a class act...
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Congrats to England. Beating NZ in New Zealand is never easy. In one day cricket NZ is one of the most attractive sides in international cricket.
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