England's top order fail again
Napier: day one of third Test - Dear me! What a truly shocking performance in every sense.
How on earth did England manage to bat like that on a good pitch and against a five-man bowling attack of which three could rustle up a total of two Tests between them?
I am not sure if it is due to over confidence, or fragile confidence but whichever of the two it is, there is something terribly wrong with the mindset of England’s top order - apart, of course.
Pietersen knows it, too. His celebration for his 11th Test century was, by his enthusiastic standards, very muted.
It simply did not feel right for him to show too much personal satisfaction in the wider context of his team’s humiliation...
He batted very well – and it was great to see him return to form again after a lean trot – but this was not the case of a batsman overturning the odds.
New Zealand’s bowling was honest and, in case, deserving of reward. Only 19 – and with just 11 first class matches behind him – he showed tremendous maturity.
England fans would recognise in his action and outswing, and he is clearly one for the future.
Grant Elliott, meanwhile, is little more than a county trundler, and Ian Bell’s dismissal to him – caught and bowled pulling a long hop for nine from 58 deliveries – must rank as his worst in Test cricket.
And what of Andrew Strauss? His form has been widely debated here – and I am afraid he appears to be beyond salvation for now.
It is a weakness of modern tours that there has not been a chance for to have played any cricket between the Tests – had there been, he might have played here.
Instead, England really had little choice but to retain Strauss, but his dreadful carve to gully for a six-ball duck surely condemns him to an extended period on the sidelines: somebody else deserves a chance.
At least Stuart Broad showed those higher up the order what can be achieved with a little thought and discipline.
He resumes on 42 not out which is comfortably his highest Test score, having batted with great resolve.
Trouble is England’s bowlers are already under pressure to rescue the situation, which sadly is a familiar tale.
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The performance of England's top order was abysmal. But can anyone explain why NZ bowling coach Dayle Hadlee was/is allowed to coach young Southee on the boundary between overs -- and most of the day in fact even though he wasn't blowling. I can never recall anything like this in fifty years of watching the game. It seems unsavoury to me no matter the youth of the fine young prospect involved in this case. I kept thinking the match referee must intervene any minute now. But it never happened.
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I fail to see why anyone can possibly be surprised by this latest batting collapse.
Lest we forget we were all out for 81 in our final Test in Sri Lanka (a pitch they made 500+ on), all out for 110 in the first Test in NZ, and collapsed to 160-something for 5, before Ambrose rescued us last time.
Going back further, England's batting has been weak since Pakistan in 2005, and the fact the batsmen average over 40 is meaningless. In this decade of flat wickets, averaging 40 is mediocre. Most Australians, Indians and Sri Lankans average 45-50, or even more.
The selectors KNEW we were in a batting slump, and they opted to pick the same side.
I'm afraid ditching Strauss alone is not the solution. Bell is mentally weak and will never perform when it matters (it's no coincidence his ONLY performance of the tour was when the game was already lost), Collingwood is technically limited if gutsy, Vaughan is a shadow of his former self and Cook is being dragged down in the general malaise. Who could mistake the brilliant débutant in India for the hesitant, flighty opener we are now seeing?
Finally, one further depressing opinion. Like Geriant Jones (1 ton vs NZ), Tim Ambrose will never score another Test Century. He's been found out. Don't bowl short and wide and he can't score.
England need to drop at least 3 of the top 6, and even victory here (still possible) is only papering over the cracks.
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Spot on Aggers.
Disgraceful batting performance by a test team. New Zealand bowled well- particularly Southee who is a young bowler given his head by Hadlee - but with true respect this attack really is what you'd find at any county ground in June minus the overseas player. Vaughan is failing more than succeeding these days, Cook is better than this but is getting caught in the malaise, Bell is hugely overrated and Strauss i'm afraid is finished at this level. There need to be batting changes, 2 or 3 i believe for the summer tests. The question is...who??
Time for our selectors to unearth someone with freshness and natural ability just like the Kiwis have.
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Spot on aggers.
We seem to be moving backwards under Peter Moores, the exception being the rise and rise of Ryan Sidebottom.
Perhaps now the KP knockers will pipe down and accept that he is a team player after all.
Did the West Indies criticise Viv Richards for being arrogant?
Did the Aussies tear apart Steve Waugh for being single minded when batting?
KP has been accused of both these things by supposed England cricket fans.
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Jonathan, aren't you fed up with following this bunch of losers around the world, seeing the occasional false dawn but mostly mediocre inconsistency?
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Aggers - the top order appear to have no fight...on paper they may all average 40 but are never consistent compared to Hussey, Hayden etc or India's top 6. I now think that Vaughan is also fast approaching the last chance saloon.
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I would probably go with under confidence Jonathan. Good point about KP's muted celebration and even Vaughan was missing his usual confident 'up and at 'em' walk to the crease when coming out with Cook.
These are quality players who do not become useless overnight. I personally feel it is lack of proper cricket out in the middle. How many times do we hear the Moores mantra of 'the boys are practising really hard in the nets' IMHO there can be no substitute for the real thing. But, we are then back to the vicious circle of itineries and scheduling etc. etc.
I feel some sadness for Strauss. Happy memories of him bursting onto the scene and I think up to the end of Pakistan in England in '06 he had scored two tons in each series he had played. A record of ten hundreds plus three other scores in the 90's in such a relatively short career is immense and to seemingly end it in the form he is in now is a real shame. Cannot all be layed at the door of being overlooked for the Ashes captaincy and then several poor decisions?
From a team perspective, I can't help feeling that the downward trot began with the failure to close out the first test in Pakistan on the last tour. Seemed to trigger a different mindset and fortune.
One final thing, I personally have no problem with Stouee being coached on the boundary. How he was prepared is a credit to NZ coaches and is an interesting comparison to Stuart Broad turning up for the last test with a running on the wicket problem. Was this not identified by bowler and more importantly Gibson BEFORE the test began? I do not rate Gibson in anywhere near the same class of Cooley or Donald.
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Once again Aggers calls it exactly as it is.
Sadly I doubt we will hear the same level of honesty from those batsmen that failed and will instead be treated to the usual guff about "big scores being round the corner".
It's time to admit that some of them are not currently good enough to play test match cricket. Also, is Moores capable of addressing our batting problems? At the moment it doesn't appear that he is.
Barring something significant in the second innings (and injuries) Stauss and Bell should be dropped for the start of next summer and Shah and Carberry given a chance. The inclusion of the latter would also enable Vaughan to go back to number three.
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Aggers, the worst thing that could happen for English cricket is if Strauss and Vaughan - and, to a lesser extent, Bell - get 50s in the 2nd innings and the selectors continue to muddle through with them. If they were scoring 100s every third Test there would be an excuse for giving them rope, but this has been going on ever since 2005 and the unhealthy speculation regarding Andrew Flintoff's return only highlights how bankrupt Team England is at the moment. Wellington should have highlighted the obvious - a fresh perspective pays dividends. There, Anderson and Broad proved there was life after 2005. It worries me that people - particularly the selectors - don't seem to realise there is talent out there in the counties - Carberry, Denly and Hildreth should all be considered. The idea that Vaughan is worth his place for captaincy alone is errant nonsense, surely Sri Lanka and Hamilton proved that. But the idea continues that we don't have any options, we can't play Shah because he hasn't been playing cricket, so we continue picking Strauss who can'y buy a run. Logic? Only English logic. It is time for serious surgery. Collingwood is not my favourite batsman, because he allows bowlers to dominate, but he is the glue in the team at the moment and making him captain would unify one day and Test teams. Then get some attacking, fresh batsmen and start the new era against New Zealand, build against South Africa and - hopefully, with or without Flintoff - we might be in some shape to play Australia next summer. But I'm sure that is far too simple.
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Here we go again -everyone here on this board has been saying the obvious -it's only the selectors who can't see a batting line which is letting us down time and again. We'll all be here at the end of this Test bemoaning why Broad has not proved himself yet or that Monty is in decline but what the hell can the bowlers do when the batsmen let them down time and again. Make no mistake about it -we won the last Test due to our bowlers ,not our batsmen.
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Fair play to the NZ coach. i don't see it as a problem at all and only wish our 'international quality' bowling coach Otis Gibson would show such initiative and support rather than having his head stuck in a newspaper everytime the camera is on him when England are bowling.
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I fail to see why anyone can possibly be surprised by this latest batting collapse.
Lest we forget we were all out for 81 in our final Test in Sri Lanka (a pitch they made 500+ on), all out for 110 in the first Test in NZ, and collapsed to 160-something for 5, before Ambrose rescued us last time.
Going back further, England's batting has been weak since Pakistan in 2005, and the fact the batsmen average over 40 is meaningless. In this decade of flat wickets, averaging 40 is mediocre. Most Australians, Indians and Sri Lankans average 45-50, or even more.
The selectors KNEW we were in a batting slump, and they opted to pick the same side.
I'm afraid ditching Strauss alone is not the solution. Bell is mentally weak and will never perform when it matters (it's no coincidence his ONLY performance of the tour was when the game was already lost), Collingwood is technically limited if gutsy, Vaughan is a shadow of his former self and Cook is being dragged down in the general malaise. Who could mistake the brilliant débutant in India for the hesitant, flighty opener we are now seeing?
Finally, one further depressing opinion. Like Geriant Jones (1 ton vs NZ), Tim Ambrose will never score another Test Century. He's been found out. Don't bowl short and wide and he can't score.
England need to drop at least 3 of the top 6, and even victory here (still possible) is only papering over the cracks.
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Aggers, the worst thing that could happen for English cricket is if Strauss and Vaughan - and, to a lesser extent, Bell - get 50s in the 2nd innings and the selectors continue to muddle through with them. If they were scoring 100s every third Test there would be an excuse for giving them rope, but this has been going on ever since 2005 and the unhealthy speculation regarding Andrew Flintoff's return only highlights how bankrupt Team England is at the moment. Wellington should have highlighted the obvious - a fresh perspective pays dividends. There, Anderson and Broad proved there was life after 2005. It worries me that people - particularly the selectors - don't seem to realise there is talent out there in the counties - Carberry, Denly and Hildreth should all be considered. The idea that Vaughan is worth his place for captaincy alone is errant nonsense, surely Sri Lanka and Hamilton proved that. But the idea continues that we don't have any options, we can't play Shah because he hasn't been playing cricket, so we continue picking Strauss who can'y buy a run. Logic? Only English logic. It is time for serious surgery. Collingwood is not my favourite batsman, because he allows bowlers to dominate, but he is the glue in the team at the moment and making him captain would unify one day and Test teams. Then get some attacking, fresh batsmen and start the new era against New Zealand, build against South Africa and - hopefully, with or without Flintoff - we might be in some shape to play Australia next summer. But I'm sure that is far too simple.
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Are these guys serious sportsmen? No doubt Vaughan will "take postives" from the debacle (dare I suggest Pietersen?). Can someone please explain how a team can win the toss, bat and then dig in and then collapse - clueless and an insult to the cricket fan.
How many people who witness this shambles realise that these "cricketeers" are each paid in excess of a quarter of a million pounds per annum?????
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Fair enough but Strauss has one more innings here .... obviously nothing less than a match saving hundred would do. To be honest I'd also put Bell in the same boat. To me he has never quite "cut the mustard" as a Test batsman. He may APPEAR to have a sound technique at times and get out unluckily (oh so many times!!) but I think he's a nervous batsman.
Please have a better day tomorrow England!!!!
You have to think like the old West Indies used to ...."whatever you bowl us out for we'll bowl you out for less.....man!" something like that anyway.
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Lets just realise this is a very poor England team - no better than a New Zealand team who are said to be poor.The batters bat with no tempo - after the first hour no runs , but top order skittled out. Batsmen have to make big scores- fifty and out hurts no -one. How much has Marcus T been missed?Let me be the first with a new batting line up.
Cook - but has to to better
Key
Ramprakesh
Peterson
Collingwwod
Shah - must have a run.
Let us win test matches now - not in the future.Let the batsmen dropped go away and score huge.
Something has to happen
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We'll have to wait and see how New Zealand bat, before we can see how bad that batting performance was - but I suspect we will be put to shame again.
What I cannot fathom is why we keep on 'nurturing' out of form players like Harmison and Strauss, when there are people out there performing so much better? Why not Ramprakash, for example? On the one hand it is understandable that people don't necessarily perform best with a sword hanging over their head, but I think we've gone too far the other way. The selectors need to be a bit more cut-throat.
Still, I am really enjoying watching Stuart Broad. What a find. Bowling with some zip and handy with a bat as well.
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Pietersen suggests that the other England batsmen will be rewarded soon like he has been today. What a staggering comment!
If most of the england batsmen play with this mindset again then it does not matter if the play a 100 more matches, they won't be rewarded.
Ian bell's shot has left me puzzled all morning. What was he thinking? He was in a glorious position to bat a long time on a good batting wicket against a very average bowling attack. Why the surrender?
There has to be some accountability as the recent batting performances have been totally unacceptable.
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The TMS team were on to the continually on-field coaching, saying that this same thing had happened in the last World Cup with the Aussies. They also mentioned tennis, a sport in which it is banned. I have no problem with it apart from the aesthetic of it; it seems to me to look rather amateurish and clunky if after every over bowled the coach can stand almost at arm's length from the play/bowler and carry out his job description mid-game.
So, for as long as it isn't banned (if it ever is) England should take advantage of the situation and do the same. They'll need it on this pitch and the scenario they find themselves in, though at this moment in time I can't see it having much positive effect on the game for the English players.
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Strauss and The captain must go.In international sport past reputation is no justification for selection.Bring in R Key and O Shah.I have allways thought Key was not given a proper chance.
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In the Andrew Strauss situation we see the potential weakness of the central contracts system. While it has overall worked well for English cricket, occasionally it seems to influence selection and this seems to be the case here. Strauss, who has not been the same since being passed over for the Ashes captaincy, has done nothing to warrant reselection since leaving the team. Despite this he was awarded a central contract and thus his return to the team was pre-determined - an event which now seems to have been almost cruel to Strauss given his current crisis of confidence. He should have been treated as Prior has by missing out on a contract and effectively being told to earn his place back by weight of performance. I for one hope Strauss can go and do that but now is certainly not that time.
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Oh well! at least the next test is at home and Freddie should be around for that! perhaps he can take the place of Strauss...
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Remove Vaughan and strauss put some young blood. There was very good english players in U19 team. This is the time to test the team. Vaughan is not perfect as captain. A country with a good background of county cricket come on you can do more than this.
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Strauss and The captain must go.In international sport past reputation is no justification for selection.Bring in R Key and O Shah.I have allways thought Key was not given a proper chance.
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Aggers
Why oh why are you so optimistc about England ? before the third Test you said categorically that New Zealand would suffer because of the injury problems they have suffered.
Now they could still win this test but nothing will detract from the awful performance of the top order batsmen.
For once give a little bit credit to New Zealand who have suffered injury blow after injury blow and still manage to produce a reasonable team.
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What a terrible first day. But lets focus on Pietersen who was pure class. After a poor run of his own he showed the top order how to play and his use of the feet again the spinners was world class. The top order needs to be built around Cook and Pietersen.
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Aggers is right. Strauss needs time back in the County game to get his technique and confidence back. I feel sorry for Shah who must be puzzled as to what he has to do to get into the team.
It may also be time to consider dropping Vaughan either down the order(5 or 6) or from the team altogether. Nice to see Broad respond to the challenge and hopefully he will stick around on Day 2.
The selectors were brave with the bowling decisions and now they need to be brave with the batting line up.
Aggers, Les Berry would not be happy !
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Spot-on Aggers.
Scrap Peter Moores. And do away with Central Contracts. The current set-up does not work. Also, it's time for a review of MV's captaincy I suspect.
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This must go down as one of the worst batting displays for many a year, The wicket is flat as a pancake and England end up on the wrack after 30 minutes of cricket.
Only the true class of Kevin Pietersen saved us from total humiliation and at last a number 8 in Stuart Broad who can hold a bat with confidence in his ability and stoke play managed to salvage some pride.
New Zealand played with only "TWO" recognized bowlers and played with guts and determination to limit a England side that really should do better against a bowling attack which would struggle in the county championship.
How England miss the class of Marcus Trescothick opening the batting he put better county teams to the sword last summer but sadly England must move on and look at youth.
Bell could be replaced by Hildreth for the return tests shah must be given a chance at some time and Chris reed is by far our best wicket keeper, Tim Ambrose cant score when bowled straight at him, Chris Reed will never be Adam Gilchrist but he takes hard catches and makes stumpings, Ok you sacrifice he only averages 20ish but may save you plenty of runs but taking what he is there to do, Something that Prior was very guilty of.
Roll on a better day two or i may be in bed by 10pm!
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I watched it up till lunch,bed was a better prospect by then! Vaughan looks finished to me as a test batsman, he's best days are behind him now and I think the other top order batsmen know it,that puts a lot of pressure on Strauss knowing he'll be in sooner rather than later.Cook is going backwards Bell not getting enough runs, the ball that dissmissed him should have been square cut through point for four.We have to start looking at Moores now, this team is a shadow of the one that was under Fletcher!
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Last night's batting collapse was particularly shocking. I'm used to them these days, but even by English standards this was a terrible effort. 4 for 3? That left me spitting my hot chocolate all over the floor as I fell off my chair.
It would appear to me that when the England team got on the plane at Heathrow, their luggage got checked in but their brains and common sense got left behind on the tarmac. With the notable exceptions of Sidebottom, Broad and Anderson - mostly unexperienced internationally - the team effort has been hollow and thoughtless. Thankfully Pietersen's lean spell appears to be coming to a conclusion, but even facotring that in, a sour taste remains.
Even as one of Strauss' most staunch advocates, it really has to be curtains for him. There's no Enlgish batsmen that I prefer to watch when he's on form, but looking from the outside in, it appears as though the selectors' captaincy snub before the last Ashes series has had a terminal effect on Strauss' confidence. I hope for his sake, and for England's, that he regains form.
I think now is the time for the English selectors to be ruthless. I don't think we can ignore Vaughan's batting any longer. We've got to ask ourselves: do we give Vaughan one more season? Or blood a new captain during the English domestic season? Or give Strauss a vote of confidence and give him the captaincy back? Either way, Vaughan's captaincy alone is not a good enough excuse to keep him in the team any longer. He's a specialist batsman - he needs to score runs.
For the short term, I think we've got to aknowledge the form and talent of Ramprakash. And whereabouts is another one of Duncan Fletcher's tried and drumped batsmen, Ed Smith?
The current England team is in a rather sad state of affairs. I suspect it will require some ruthlessness and some gambling in order to correct the current malaise.
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This truly appalling Test Series merely underlines what I've been thinking for 12 months or more now and that is that the overall standard of international cricket is in steep decline. A steadily declining Australia are still far ahead of the mediocrity beneath them and amongst the current crop of England and New Zealand plyers there are probably only four of genuine class and quality (Pietersen, McCullum, Fleming and Vettori). England shade it slightly on the rather dubious basis of having fewer out-and-out poor players and, in all due respect to the Kiwis, the likes of Bell, How, Sinclair and Mills are barely County standard. On that basis, England should be winning (and probably still will, by the way) but what does the dreadful standard of cricket we're watching say about England? For me, we're living in cloud cuckoo land if we think players like Vaughan, Strauss, Bell, Cook, Collingwood, Anderson and Ambrose are anything other than whole-hearted journeyman. OK, they've all got half decent batting and bowling averages but, as Martin Crowe correctly observed recently, that's about par for the course in Test cricket these days with the ability to fill one's boots against sides like Zimbabwe, New Zealand, Bangledash and the West Indies. The truly depressing thing for me is the seeming lack of talent coming through. Panesar, Cook and Broad have the typically English look of above average County pros to me and I really don't think we're in the company of emerging greatness here. Whither Messrs Trescothick and Flintoff? Your country needs you!!
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For once agnew youva wrote a good article everybody loves andrew strauss as a batsmen when hes best but he appears to have lost his game
the loss of trescothick has been cruel to him he ahs not scored a ton since trescothick stopped playing test cricket
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From a kiwi's point of view.....losing mills and Oram for this test, is a massive hole to fill. NZ cricket hasnt the depth of the english so to bring in Southee and Elliot was a guttsy move!! They both done well 2day. As for all the comments i have read from you english supporters, its all about how bad the english top order played. How about credit to our bowlers. Great lines, good length and a never say die spirit. Hopefully we wrap up the tail early 2morw and build good partnerships to build a good 1st innings total.
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Batting first and four of the top five batters failing to touch double digit mark is not a healthy sign. Congrats to Kevin and the lower order batsmen for the rear-guard action.
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The batting is a problem for all test nations at the moment (expect Australia and India to a certain degree).
New Zealand, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, West Indies, Bangladesh and England all have extremely unpredictable test batting line ups....
Is this the early repercussions of 20-20 cricket and excessive oneday cricket?
Have our batsman world wide lost the patients and concentration needed to build a long test innings?
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Well Jonathan, this latest fiasco from England's 'top line batting' has hardly warmed up a cold grey bank holiday weekend?
What I cannot understand is if yourself and the fans can see issues with the batting which frankly have been present since the Ashes 05 (yes they were weak then too, the bowlers won Ashes 05), can the selectors & Moores not see this?
England have talent but somewhere it is not being brought out, a much needed post mortem with no over emotion is required when England get home.
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Yet again our under-performing batsman fail, on a pitch where a village side would struggle to be 4-3 on the first morning.
So if by the standards set so far, Matthew Hoggard gets dropped after 1 average game, how on earth have the all our top 6 batsman been given so long to get it right?
Surely it's not good for team spirit and harmony within the camp that double-standards are so rife where team selection is concerned. When will the selectors realise that it's not the bowling department where the problems lie any more?
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Good article Aggers. Top knock from KP - glad to see hes back in form. The other batsmen have once again underperformed. Changes must be made unless significant improvement in our 2nd innings.
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Coming up to this third test, I've almost been embarrassed to be English with the one-sided view of most of the reporting. I've watched the English team for years now, and failed to see exactly how this test was 'in the bag' as most have reported it.
Over the course of the series - both one day and tests - the kiwis have proven to be at least our match, and have perhaps even edged us so far, in spite of frequent comparison to village green XI's and with an injury/defection list that must surely have had an effect. Imagine what Shane Bond might have done to this fragile line-up?
Is it any wonder we seem so surprised at every collapse, when we don't appear able to respect our opposition, or realise our own position in the scheme of things?
Here's hoping to an English victory - but, if we fail, let's give the opposition some credit at last. Then we might be in the right frame of mind for some revenge in the return series over summer.
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Vaughan has been average or below since he returned.Strauss needs a break.Drop them both until they prove their worth, just like Hoggy & Harmy.I suspect Vaughan causes a lot of pressure on lower order batters,just like he did in ODI.Time to prove he's worth his place, but I think he should go now.Done nothing for yonks. Bring in Denly etc, top order is surrendering the game to the opposition.
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Aggers, the worst thing that could happen for English cricket is if Strauss and Vaughan - and, to a lesser extent, Bell - get 50s in the 2nd innings and the selectors continue to muddle through with them. If they were scoring 100s every third Test there would be an excuse for giving them rope, but this has been going on ever since 2005 and the unhealthy speculation regarding Andrew Flintoff's return only highlights how bankrupt Team England is at the moment. Wellington should have highlighted the obvious - a fresh perspective pays dividends. There, Anderson and Broad proved there was life after 2005. It worries me that people - particularly the selectors - don't seem to realise there is talent out there in the counties - Carberry, Denly and Hildreth should all be considered. The idea that Vaughan is worth his place for captaincy alone is errant nonsense, surely Sri Lanka and Hamilton proved that. But the idea continues that we don't have any options, we can't play Shah because he hasn't been playing cricket, so we continue picking Strauss who can'y buy a run. Logic? Only English logic. It is time for serious surgery. Collingwood is not my favourite batsman, because he allows bowlers to dominate, but he is the glue in the team at the moment and making him captain would unify one day and Test teams. Then get some attacking, fresh batsmen and start the new era against New Zealand, build against South Africa and - hopefully, with or without Flintoff - we might be in some shape to play Australia next summer. But I'm sure that is far too simple.
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I think that you'll have to update the scorecard, Aggers:
"England won the toss and decided to lose"
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English batting for some time has been flakey. Strauss must surely be dropped permanently, he is not even a shadow of his former self. Bell seems to lack the character required and should go also. I dont think you can drop Collywobbles, he has been the most consistent batsmen this tour despite his "limited" ability. As for Ambrose, I think England fans need to accept that we do not have an Adam Gilchrist and are unlikely ever too, so get over it. If Flintoff returns as a fifth bowler he will weaken the batting not strengthen it so we need a class top 5. Some other batsmen round the country must be wondering if they will ever get a chance with the current selection policy.
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Must have been a power surge at 10.30pm last night! Televisions and radios switched off, up and down the country! 4-3 then 39-4....complete tosh!
Am I the only one who finds the sight of Cook practicing this forward defensive shot over and over again between deliveries boring!!Will our 'openers' ever learn to dominate the bowlers? Any 'out of form' or inexperienced bowler facing England right now must think they've died and gone to heaven with this inept bunch shuffling around.
Let Mustard open - he might be back in the pavillion within 20 minutes but at least we'll have 30 or 40 runs on the board!
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Make Hoggard captain and then like the previous encumbant, he will be able to keep his place for a number of years without performing.
Hoggy has one mediocre game and loses his place, after match after match of being Englands most consistant bowler. In the meantime, Strauss fails match after match but retains his place.
It doesn't make sense to me.
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Absolutely no excuse for not playing Shah- he is not technically shot to pieces like Strauss so lack of match pratice matters not and given the shabby treatment he has received from the England management and yet hasn't given up the game he most likely has a better temperament than a lot of the current batting line-up. He has been proved by first class cricet to be a good player for donkey's years, why do we need one lame excuse after another for him not getting a decent run in the side. IT IS LONG OVERDUE! Stop propping up bad selectorial decisions with your additional spin, Aggers! All the above goes for other players who have done better in the county game than the incumbents (mentioning no Ramprakashes). Yet, the Vaughn-Bell-Collingwood-Strauss axis of rubbish trundles on year after year, test after test, humiliation after humiliation. This is why most people have tuned out of cricket in England.
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England have been in decline now for three years, that much we all know. The batsmen were caught on the back foot literally and figuratively last night. Punchdrunk, Shellshocked, call it whatever! The huge stock of faith we have as followers in Michael Vaughan is dwindling, and half of the team are psychologically wounded in the kind of fashion that would give Steve Waugh immense joy. Strauss was selected for all the wrong reasons and is being baked out there - he can still succeed for England but needs to get his game together in county cricket. He also needs to keep his trap shut - his comments about the NZ bowlers is just one smoke signals from this unit which suggest an underlying arrogance and displaced self regard. Cook, as many above have stated, is worth his place and will survive the cull. Vaughan could have a career as a batsman only but who would be captain? Colly is a great fielder and improved bowler but for some reason he doesnt quite cut the mustard. Ambrose is going to be scrutinised and destroyed by being in a hopeless position, the heir to a throne with an ejector seat. By september Foster will have the gloves back and we will wish he had never lost them all those years back. The bowling? Hard to judge in this winter of batting failure. What is going on with Peter Moores? Has he lost the dressing room? How i wish Tom Moody had been given the job.
A bright spot - get some new blood in the team for the summer and give Bell and Strauss this ultimatum; get your game back together and get runs at county level, make us pick you.
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As usual, you lot - apart from Geoffrey - all have your heads buried in the sand. I thought his summing up at the end of play this morning was excellent. We have not had a team of dedicated, consistent players for 30 or 40 years.0ne player sometimes comes up with a good batting/bowling performance, and all of you think we have at last got such a team, only for disappointment next time. Look at the second Test in New Zealand. Whereas England in a similar situation would have been playing for a draw by the end of the fourth day, New Zealand played to win right to the end, and they very nearly got there. I reckon that if they had had one more wicket to play with on the fifth day, they would have won. Yet all we heard from the media was that we once again had a great team. I think the true state of our team was shown last night!! Once again, after that fiasco, all we heard on the news this morning was that Pietersen had at last regained form, and saved the day. Any bets on his score in the second innings? How on earth we won The Ashes I will never know.
As for your Virgin Captain at 39,000 feet receiving the programme on 198 Long Wave, whereas short waves can pass trough the Ionosphere, long waves cannot, so they are bounced back to earth off the ionosphere, and so can be received on the ground at very long distances. Very useful in the days of that much missed,worthy old institution - the British Empire. I spent most of my life as a Navigator flying round the world, and in the 50's we were limited to 10,000 feeet as we were not pressurised. The only Navigation aids we had were a sextant and drift sight. We had one piece of High Tech??? "electronics" on board - an Automatic Direction Finder. One tuned into the required radio station, and the pointer gave a bearing to it. Occasionally while on the other side of the world, we would tune into the "Light Programme" on 198, and the needle would point straight ahead. It was no use navigatonally, but at least it showed we were heading the right way !!!
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Only a century in the second innings can save Strauss
Only a good half century by Vaughan can save further speculation for him to be dropped for the summer UK NZ and SA tests.
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Too often the problems with our batting line up are either dismeissed becuase the match was saved by our bowlers or by a batsman getting 50 or 60 in a last chance saloon scenario. There have to be changes.
Vaughan is clearly a classy batsman but he is prone top cheap dismissals and there are too many of them to keep ignoring. Cook seems to be learning from his peers, paying attention to strauss's inability to let the ball go seemingly thinking that he is just going to drive his way out of this slump. Bell is fragile and although we as critics dont help a batsmans confidence (lets hope he doesnt read this...) he is just fodder at the moment and as a wise gent earlier pointed out seems to only fire when the cause is lost. Pietersen is class but is in sooner rather than later and is then left to begin a salvage operation. Paul Collingwood does have his limts but he is a fighter and has scored 3 50's in this series. he may not have gone on to make a ton, but he has stuck around, kept us in the game and (although over used and in some ways slightly derogatory) shows grit lacking in abundance from supposed 'better' players such as bell and Strauss. He has to stay and in my mind should be made captain, at least in the short term (poss for stability until the end of the ashes), as we look for a long term leader.
Not sure if Ramps is the answer, but he is in fine form and is worthy of a place on merit. Why bring Shah out and let him sit watching batting collapse after batting collapse. Will he ever have a proper chance?? Hildreth and carberry should have a good shout for the summer and freddie will walk back in at this moment in time.
The wicket keeping fiasco continues at pace. Is it that hard just to employ a glovesman who is there to catch the red thing and let the batsman get the majority of the runs? Another flawed cricketer while Foster and Reed sit at home wondering what the hell went wrong.
The bowling attack is exciting. I felt sorry for hoggy as he is an excellent bowler, but maybe he needed to get his rhythm back (it must have taken its toll having to carry a lanky geordie for so long). Broad and Sidebottom deserve to be there for the long haul and now that Anderson is back, he should be given an extended run.
It is time for change as I cannot bear another night watching this lot under perform...
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Dare I ask what contribution our batting coach has made to the team? Since Mr. Flowers was appointed they seem to have gone backwards.
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We cant even blame Harmison for this!
Matt 'some other batsmen around the country...'??? Who?? These miserable failures are the best we have.
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What must Owais Shah be thinking? In Sri Lanka he could not a game and Bopara (a guy who has potential) could only average 10 in 3 tests and now in NZ he is ousted by dead wood like Strauss. I just hope when he is finally given his chance he will also have some of the luxary as the rest of the failures.
Well dont KP, you proved your doubthers wrong (including me).
Cook - Needs to stop trying to think he's the new Lara and stick to his tried and tested.
Vaughan - A cricketer in serious decline.
Strauss - Finished. I hope.
KP - Still the main man.
Bell - Bottles it in the big situations big time, hugley overrated.
Collingwood - Par
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Really poor batting performance but we should give the New Zealand attack some credit Southee especially bowled superbly with the new ball. In response to #1 there is no rule to say you can't give advice from the sidelines and it seems to me that it should be done more often!
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Surely there must be some financial retribution for this kind of display!
But the onus is not just on our bowlers to perform extraordinary feats: the England fielding must be of the highest order. Perhaps some of the hopeless batsmen can do something decent in the field and pull off an Easter resurrection in what must be their last appearance, in an England sweater at least.
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A number of you have referred to the on-field 'coaching' of Tim Southee - although how the NZ coach can spot problems with his action or the lines and lengths he is bowling from the boundary edge, rather than from watching TV pictures in the dressing room, is beyond me - and Roger (message 19) suggests England should use the same tactic.
Do we really want England cricketers to become mindless drones who let the coaching staff do all the thinking for them, or do we want them to accept personal responsibility and be able to adapt to different situations during a game?
If coaches have all the answers, why not let messrs Moores, Gibson and Flower, plus a few from the county circuit, take on their NZ counterparts instead?
Just imagine it - every ball on a perfect line and length, every stroke straight out of the textbook, no catches dropped.....
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I blame Monty.
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England players with a central contract no longer have the hunger and work ethic required to succeed at Test level. They are going down the Premier League road, over paid and full of their own importance.
Winning the Ashes in 2005 was a great achievement but not one player has improved since then.
They do not play enough competitive cricket in the middle since tour schedules are designed to make money ahead of giving the team proper preparation.
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James Davey 2. I hope you're wrong about Ambrose because he has a lot more to his game than justthe square cut.
Overall a very poor performance from our batsmen ( Pieterson apart) against a no better than county standard attack. Its unfair to single out Strauss because apart from maybe Vaughan they were all out to pathetic shots.
I'm dissapointed in Bell because we all know hes a lot better than this. I think hes a much better player when he plays more positively. He was much too tentative in yesterdays innings. He's played better bowlers than Elliot playing Birmingham league cricket for Coventry.
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I was waiting for the Ramprakash brigade to come out again. If he EVER gets a recall to the England side, we may as well all give up for good. He was proven time and time again to be a serial bottler for England, and those calling for his recall really show how little they know about the game. 52 tests, average less than 30, one of the worst players we have had at international level for years. Move on and let's have some fresh ideas.
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In the bad old days this set of batsmen would have returned to England at the end of the series and would have been told to return to the County game and prove they were up to it before the Home series started. In these more enlightened days of Test contracts it seems that no matter how many failures they have the same set of faces will turn up again in May to play for England as an elite troop. Is this progress?
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So England's top order fails again - I wonder which two bowlers will be getting fearful about losing their place?
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Aggers,
Right again. I would humbly suggest giving Mark Ramprakash another go. He is only three centuries away from 100 first class centuries and obviously has that confidence that is missing.
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It's so sad when the TMS commentators start to think and talk about other ways of entertaining themselves than watching another England batting collapse!
Let there be no great innings for Strauss and Vaughan in the second innings. It would signify nothing. They are below the standard required at this level. There are many good county players who can play far better. Ryan Sidebottom is proof of what is available.
Vaughan was ruthless with Harmi and Hoggard. Who will be man enough to be ruthless in their assessment of him? Or will England cricket continue on its downward path?
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How on earth Hugh Morris can say that Peter Moores is doing a good job is beyond me!! This attitude, and the continued retention of out of form, over-payed has-beens is why English cricket is in such a mess!
Hugh Morris was not a test-quality player (played 3 tests I think) and now is paid 200 Grand to sit there and do nothing. Peter Moores - what has he done? Oh, win a couple of Championships for darling Sussex! Well the County Championship is a complete waste of time, turning out journeymen like half the England team, and only serves to mkae Australians better players. Strauss and Vaughan must go - they can retire on their autobiography proceeds and ghost-written newspaper articles. Bell and Collingwood are very limited but we don't have a lot of reserves, so they will have to continue.
How much longer do we have to watch this drivel? I guess I should find something better to do with my time. I certainly won't be going to a test match in England this summer - so expensive to what such rubbish. I'll stay in the USA and do something better. There again, baseball is even worse! :-(
As Obama says, "It's time for change." Sadly the old farts & "jobs for the boys" set at the helm of English cricket won't change and we'll see more of this diatripe! Don't go to the games, and don't watch on TV. Once the demand goes down, they'll have to do something. There again, the ECB is so clueless it won't know what to do.
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Last night's batting collapse was particularly shocking. I'm used to them these days, but even by English standards this was a terrible effort. 4 for 3? That left me spitting my hot chocolate all over the floor as I fell off my chair.
It would appear to me that when the England team got on the plane at Heathrow, their luggage got checked in but their brains and common sense got left behind on the tarmac. With the notable exceptions of Sidebottom, Broad and Anderson - mostly unexperienced internationally - the team effort has been hollow and thoughtless. Thankfully Pietersen's lean spell appears to be coming to a conclusion, but even facotring that in, a sour taste remains.
Even as one of Strauss' most staunch advocates, it really has to be curtains for him. There's no Enlgish batsmen that I prefer to watch when he's on form, but looking from the outside in, it appears as though the selectors' captaincy snub before the last Ashes series has had a terminal effect on Strauss' confidence. I hope for his sake, and for England's, that he regains form.
I think now is the time for the English selectors to be ruthless. I don't think we can ignore Vaughan's batting any longer. We've got to ask ourselves: do we give Vaughan one more season? Or blood a new captain during the English domestic season? Or give Strauss a vote of confidence and give him the captaincy back? Either way, Vaughan's captaincy alone is not a good enough excuse to keep him in the team any longer. He's a specialist batsman - he needs to score runs.
For the short term, I think we've got to aknowledge the form and talent of Ramprakash. And whereabouts is another one of Duncan Fletcher's tried and drumped batsmen, Ed Smith?
The current England team is in a rather sad state of affairs. I suspect it will require some ruthlessness and some gambling on the selectros part in order to correct the current malaise.
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The batting has been much more frail without Trescothick and Strauss opening for England. What has happened to Trescothick now that he has retired from international cricket what is this stress related illness please can someone explain
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Firstly, well done to KP.. credit where credit is due. Just imagine if he'd stayed with SAfrica.
Rather amused with the continuing reference to the NZ team as being mediocre English county players. Granted it's far from the best team we could field however last time I checked NZ won the ODI series and are, at this stage, slight favourites to edge the test series as well.
Maybe some praise would be better positioned as oppose to the continued misinformed commentary we have in large parts above.
BTW I hear Auckland B grade clubs are looking for "mediocre" players for next season. Maybe a chance for Blightys finest to stick about and learn something...
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Yesterday I read how England batsmen were eager to "bully" NZ's inexperienced attack.
Last night I listened as England were 3 down for 4 runs, and then how they averaged only just over 1 run per over for a very long time indeed.
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
I sometimes feel that the way that Pietersen plays shows a contempt for his team mates - sometimes throwing his wicket away, sometimes batting gloriously in a lost cause as if to provide contrast. But frankly it is becoming harder not to share that feeling of contempt.
To represent your country at the sport you love should be the greatest privilege, not a burden.
England seem to live in a fantasy world in which Vaughan is the world's greatest captain; Strauss and Harmison are one game away from returning to their pomp; the return of St. Freddie will save the day; and all we need is a new Ian Botham and everything will be alright.
What we really need is a team chosen for what they can achieve, not what they once achieved, and a team of people who want to win enough to turn up and dig deep.
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Never mind, all we need to do is "Look at the positives" and "Bowl in the right areas" and everything will be alright.
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Mentality, not quality nor age of the batsmen, is the issue here. The Central Contract system appeared to be working for a little while, and maybe that had something to do with the mindset of the Fletcher/Hussain working partnership; but in the long run, it seems to have created an insular environment which has become tainted with failure, and the current coaching/management set-up are proving clueless as to what to do about this. I believe the England players have lost touch with the wider aspects of the cricketing environment. Scrapping the CC system alone won't do the job...we weren't exactly pulling up any trees before it, were we? We need to go even further back, to the pre-1970's system, which brought England players to the appropriate physical, technical and mental standards long before they ever made the test teams.
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The poor showing of our top order batsmen comes as no surprise to me. Foe the last couple of years our top five have been consistently out-scored in test after test, by almost every team we have played. Cook has been great but is being dragged down by the performances of the others; Strauss looks a shadow of himself since Trescothick's departure, Vaughan clearly isn't suited to opening, and I have never been a big fan of Bell, who sends catching practice shots to cover and point too frequently (a fault that the aussies latched on to with glee). His failure to convert more 50s to 100s makes one question whether he can really perform at this level. Pieterson is great, and it's good to see him getting a good score, let's hope that he has now turned a corner on his recent poor form. Collingwood may not be the most exciting player to watch, but he is gritty and determined and doesn't give his wicket away cheaply, he's also a great fielder and useful back up bowler, but doesn't seem to have the "vision" to be a great captain, and I don't think that role should be handed to him. Clearly the team miss the influence of Flintoff, but to assume that (even if he can prove his fitness) he can wave a magic wand and make everything OK on his return is naive, even dangerous. England now have the bones of a formidable bowling attack with the young players coming through, let's hope the selectors keep faith with them, and turn their attention to building a good balanced team. Their priority must surely be to pick (and stick with) a keeper who can actually keep wicket and batsmen, specialist or otherwise, who have some clue as to where their off- stump is. We can dream......
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Carberry, Denley, Flintoff, and possibly Key are what we need in the team now
Not no-hopers like Shah, Ramprakash, Bopara ect. Tried and failed. In Ramprakash's (statistically the worst EVER batsman to play more than 50 tests) case more so
Also, the top order deliveres a poor performance like that and people are calling for a wicketkeeper that cant bat?
There are no perfect wicketkeepers keeping-wise. The so called saviour Read is known for his lead feet and is especially vinerable down the leg side.
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It seems to me that English players in general,amount to less than the sum of their parts! For example if Ian bell was Australian or South African he certainly would not be flirting with mediocrity, He'd have a much better conversion rate ( 50's to 100's)and wouldn't find so many ways to give his wicket away when well set! Overall he would be the player that his ability justifies! The same could be argued with Michael Vaughan, who did manage his best for a couple of years at least.
Another example is Stephen Harmison, who has all the ingredients to be the worlds leading fast bowler. However he seems fail when a peformance is expected from him.
This may be down to a number of factors, weight of expectation, media pressure, or team related issues. But It's so frustrating as a spectator knowing that the england team is a wash with class, but always seem to underperform.
I think it's more expectation than pressue, I've seen many a fine engand performance under pressue, but not often under expectation.
It is an obvious psychological issue, England players need to realise why there playing test cricket in the first place. They're class players!! They should just play cricket and not fear expectation and the success will come.
Maybe we should not watch, and pretend that all the players are poor, that way they might play well.
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Ah, the nashing of teeth and tearing at hair. Us black cap supporters have sat quietly and listened all summer as to how much better England are and how they were going to dominate the tests. After a lucky win in the first we were put in our place in the second. Then we lost two of our best bowlers on the eve of the test, turned up to find a shirt front then lost the toss. More than enough excuses to keep England going for a whole season. As Kiwis, of couse, we went out with what we had and got stuck in.
England are soft, technically deficient, mentally weak, but above all, lack talent. They will never be any good until they can be honest with themselves and honest with there supporters.If they do that they just may get back to being a team to be feared. Until then they will continue to be a tentative, boring side who I wouldn't cross the road to watch.
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I think the calls to drop Bell are a little harsh. he is Englands most classy batmsan although it is obvious his one drawback is a mental one.
For me the axe ahs to fall on Strauss and Vaughan.
I would pick this side for the summer Tests:
Cook
Key
Shah/Carberry
KP
Colly
Bell
Ambrose/Mustard
Broad
Onions/Mahmood/Plunkett/Anderson
Sidebottom
Monty
With Fred to drop in at 8 and Broad back to 9 if and when.
Still at least the futures orange, at least if Rashid and Finn develop thwe way they should.
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One question: If Michael Vaughan were not captain, on his current form, would you pick him? Answers on a postcard to Mr P Moores.
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James (comment 75)
A bit harsh about Shah, surely? Tried and failed? He's only played two tests, poor beggar, and in his first innings played scored a gorgeous 88 that had the purists purring with glee about the strength in depth of talent available to England! And that was just two years ago. Hardly his fault that he has hardly been selected since.
I personally am pro-Ramps but am acutely aware of the arguments against, which have been thoroughly and convincingly argued here on many occasions.
But your comments about Shah are generous compared to the thoughtless drivel offered by Chris (comment 65): " the weak-minded fool, between him and Steve "Heads-up second slip" Harmison they've destroyed a team."
I don't know where to start with comments like that so I shan't - I'll just ask you to stop.
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It is high-time England started from scratch with their top-order batsmen.
Too much is made of half-centuries in a game where the technology and trueness of pitches means such scores are much easier to come by.
Get rid of KP (the GREAT pretender), Strauss, Vaughan, Collingwood and Bell and blood some new players! It is time to reward the many hard-working young players who wait in frustration.
Come on England....its time to change and join India, Australia, SL and SA in the the premier league.
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It is always very sad when TMS commentators speak wistfully about other entertainment while watching yet another England batting collapse.
How many times do some batsmen need to fail at this level to be de-selected? No big hit in the second innings should spare any of the top order batsmen. They have failed to reach the standard expected.
Strauss and Vaughan are below standard at this level. Why do the selectors continually deny county players the opportunity to perform at this level when players in the team fail? There are plenty of good county players. Ryan Sidebottom is evident proof.
The selectors seem to go for re-treads - which we all know let you down. Strauss was the easy choice. Oh dear!
Vaughan was ruthless with Harmi and Hoggard. Who will be man enough to be ruthless with Vaughan?
If England win – the selectors won’t take action because they’ll dress it up as a ‘great win’.
2-1 versus New Zealand? Please!
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An absolute shocker England. But, unfortunately, not an unexpected one. The win in the last test papered over the cracks. If England lose this series then heads have to roll. Peter Moores has shown me nothing to suggest that he has the standing and confidence to pull England around. Michael Vaughan, a one time test class batsman, is on the decline and cannot expect to stay in the side for his captaincy alone. Andrew Strauss (who it appeared to me did absolutely nothing to win his test place back) is devoid of technique and confidence. And while Ian Bell is undoubtedly a good player he has to start showing it (e.g. by scoring run and heavily at that).
A bold move by the England selectors would be to seriously consider KP for the captaincy. He has the presence (physically and mentally), is a world class player and seems to be a leader of men. He would certainly be a breath of fresh air.
Finally, if anyone wanted confirmation of the discipline and mindset of the England team then they only had to look at the sight of so called England '12th' man Steve Harmison lying around on a couch yesterday in full view of England supporters at the ground and millions of viewers on Sky TV. The team are in the middle of a test match and it looked really bad that Harmison was allowed to do this. If he was that tired then he should have stayed in the hotel or, even better, went back to Durham to have a good rest. Do you really think Ricky Pointing and/or John Buchanan would allow the Australian 12th Man to laze around in such a way? - no, nor do I !!. - it says everything about the spirit and discipline in the England camp....
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Vaughn must now fall on the sword and go as he is setting completely the wrong example by talking the talk but being incapable of walking the walk. He has shown he is prepared to drop players who do not perform, so he must now apply that rule to himself and his top order otherwise he becomes an even bigger joke than he already is.
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Typically downbeat comments by all. England lost 3 quick wickets - that can happen to any team anywhere. I thought from 4 down at lunch this was a fairly tasty recovery. If we lose this match, fine - be negative but let's wait and see.
Southee getting tips from the boundary - how can anyone really complain about that. It's pathetic.
Do we want england to rack up another hundred or would we like to see them rolled over in swinging conditions that we can later exploit? I will go out on a limb here and say Broad will get close to 100.
As far as Strauss is concerned, do the media want to put him under anymore pressure. He will defy all and score a tone in the second innings. But still Broad is a godsend - to get Fred back at six we need someone who can bat at eight.
I hope Prior has brushed up on his keeping because he is a genuine bat.
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Interesting how so many of the general public appear to know considerably more about team selection and technique than those in control of the England side. Surely, if this many people are sufficiently guru-like when it comes to the not inconsiderable technical nuances of the game of cricket, then they should, at the very least, be playing in or coaching a first class side... This type of knee-jerk reaction is precisely what is not required. Strauss is obviously out of form and down on confidence, and should probably be asked to go and perform again at county level. Having a go at Bell is risible as his record speaks for itself, and dropping him is totally unjustified. As for the others, they are all capable, and should be retained to make good. How anyone can make predictions about Ambrose based on the two and a bit test matches he has played, I fail to understand. His glovework is far superior to Prior and Jones, and he's probably a much better batsman than Read ever will be. Give the chap a chance. And just so nobody can accuse me of bias - I'm a Middlesex member, and suggesting the dropping of the only Middlesex player in the side...
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England are just too negative. What has happened to the swash-buckling approach of the Home Ashes Series (Were we made over 400 in the first day etc etc).
We are paying for this negativity and we are paying dearly for the lack of batsmen whom are natural stroke players!
If we had played a wee bit agressively, we would atleast kept the score ticking and also get our timing right. It wasn't any surprise that alot of our batsmen got out playing non strokes!
The agressive mind-set was the key thing when we were dominating test matches in 2005. How we miss Tresco and Flintoff!
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Come on everyone, lets all calm down and face facts. We all know the problem with our cricket is not rectified by chopping and changing the current players its at grass roots coaching level. Thousands of kids are playing cricket out there at the moment so where are our wrist spinners?, where are our genuine quick's, where are the genuine opening batsman (BOYCS)?
We are constantly papering over the cracks of poor nurturing and coaching of good, young, raw talent, with the occasional exception. Sorry but the facts dont lie......
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A note to those who keep dissing Ramps' test average - he had to face far better bowling than is currently on show in the test arena - can you compare a test average gained against Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Wasim with Mills, Oram and your other Agnewesque trundlers. However, Ramps did have a fair crack as a Test player so whether he deserves another chance is a moot point. A lot of the current problems stem from not realising what a fluke the Ashes victory in 2005 was and not being ruthless afterwards.
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I think its time for a drastic overhall of Englands batting line-up. I would keep Cook as the anchor at the top of the innings but Vaughan can no longer justify his place in the side. Whenever I watch him im just waiting far him to find the edge or get bolwed/lbw.
I never understood the re-introduction of Strauss. Bell lacks any real mental toughness and when under any sort of pressure throws his wicket away. KP is an excellent player and although he is coming out of a trough he will always score runs. Collingwood im not sure about. He has been in reasonable form over the past few years and if we dont have him in the field we look very cumbersome.
But I think its just our attitude towards the batting thats changed. Under Fletcher the batsman were always talking of being positive and taking the attack to the bowlers. Under Moores I hear liitle of that bullishness. It seems more about building a platform, which seems to translate to tentative and thoroughly un-entertaining cricket.
In a nut shell its just a mess. I think a change of coach is also needed. He may the the best technical coach in the world for all i know but he has never experienced cricket at this level so how can he relate to the players situation, and how can the players respect him.
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What surprises me most is the poor technique shown by the English batsmen. As a coach I teach players to lead with their head towards the ball which allows the front leg to go towards the ball and for the front knee to bend. I insist that the back leg stays straight and that the ball is hit underneath the eyes.
Strauss has been bending his back leg for over 2 years now and yet his is not able to cure it. Cook's dismisal was because his head was too far over to the off side so his front leg can not go towards the ball or bend.
I also tach that the hands should come down on top of the ball whereas Cook seems to consistantly push his hands at the ball.
Geniuses like Viv Richards and Pieterson can ignore the rule book but most cannot. Just look at Dravid and Tendulka or Hussey and Hayden and watch how their techniques are better.
What do the county coaches and Andy Flower teach? It appears to me that they have too many theories and forget the basics. Stand still, watch the ball, have a high backswing, move your head towards the ball and make sure you hit down on the ball with it underneath your eyes. Simple!
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I think Strauss has got to stop worrying about his technique and just try to play naturally. And I feel that all this criticism of him is unfair. If he gets a hundred in the second innings we'll all be singin his praises.
KP's return to form is a relief. When he does well, England tend to well, although they are not following that guidline in this match.
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In Test 2 against NZ we were rescued by "our" Australian wicket-keeper and in the current test by "our" South African batsman.
No wonder the government is throwing our borders wide open-they're hoping more talented sportsmen will arrive to bail out our bloody awful cricket team.(Add football and rugby union to that).
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After England defeated NZ in the second test I read some scathing remarks in this column about the NZ cricket team, my favourite being that NZ was about as good as a second rate county side.
If that is so, then the England cricket team, based on yesterdays debacle, is as good a fourth rate county side.
Napier is probably the best batting wicket in NZ.
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An absolute shocker England. But, unfortunately, not an unexpected one. The win in the last test papered over the cracks. If England lose this series then heads have to roll. Peter Moores has shown me nothing to suggest that he has the standing and confidence to pull England around. Michael Vaughan, a one time test class batsman, is on the decline and cannot expect to stay in the side for his captaincy alone. Andrew Strauss (who it appeared to me did absolutely nothing to win his test place back) is devoid of technique and confidence. And while Ian Bell is undoubtedly a good player he has to start showing it (e.g. by scoring run and heavily at that).
A bold move by the England selectors would be to seriously consider KP for the captaincy. He has the presence (physically and mentally), is a world class player and seems to be a leader of men. He would certainly be a breath of fresh air.
Finally, if anyone wanted confirmation of the discipline and mindset of the England team then they only had to look at the sight of so called England '12th' man Steve Harmison lying around on a couch yesterday in full view of England supporters at the ground and millions of viewers on Sky TV. The team are in the middle of a test match and it looked really bad that Harmison was allowed to do this. If he was that tired then he should have stayed in the hotel or, even better, went back to Durham to have a good rest. Do you really think Ricky Pointing and/or John Buchanan would allow the Australian 12th Man to laze around in such a way? - no, nor do I !!. - it says everything about the spirit and discipline in the England camp....
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Sussex is not a Test Match ground but has won the County Championship three times this decade!
Commentators note
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I have for years observed and even written to Michael Vaughan about it.
England batsman can never continue on from the prvious day, almost without exception they lose wickets in the first few overs,so losing 4 wickets today in 20 minutes came as no surprise to me.
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Great innings by Pieterson,shame he had to spoil it a little by defending his fellow batsman at the close of play.
Kevin you don't have to make excuses for them, we all know they have been rubbish for ages!
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Joe Denly
Michael Vaughan (C)
Kevin Pietersen
Mark Ramprakash
Rob Key
Paul Collingwood
Andrew Flintoff
Adil Rashid
Tim Ambrose (WK)
Ryan Sidebottom
Matthew Hoggard
This in my opinion should be the team for the next Lord's test in May. Ramprakash needs to be added even if it is only for 1 summer, his mental toughness, experiance and 2007 first class average of 101. He's been consistantly outstanding in the champ for 2 years, which is currently needed in the England team.
Kent's Joe Denly deserves a place in the openers spot with an impressive tour to india with the lions under his bealt. Scored 1000 runs in 2007 at 41.
Denly's captain at Kent, Rob Key deserves his place after a success in 2007 scoring 1250 runs averaging at 56. He also has the mental edge after captaining Kent to the 2020 and has already a double centuary at test level to his name.
If Freddie's knee holds up he has to be a dead cert. England's go to wicket taker has the ability to win games single-handedly. With nearly 200 test wickets and over 3000 test runs - one of the world's best all rounders without a doubt.
PCA young player of 2007 Adil Rashid is a 20 year-old all-rounder. Bowling leg-spin took 43 wickets in 2007 and with a batting average of 44. Highly recomended by shane warne took 6-67 on debuet. An outstanding fielder to boot.
Although the Hogster only took 5 wickets in tests in the 2007 his average was remarkable at 23. At county level this average was even better at 21 with 40 wkts in 13 games. His mentality means he will bowl all day if he is required - who will forget those 12 wickets in joburg 05. One of England's all-time test wicket takers with 249 to his name. Excellent to left-handers with his inswing.
England really need mental strength and leadership from all players not just vaughan. The tail also needs to be dramatically improve.
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When a Sports team is as inconsistent as the England team is at present and when talented players are underperforming it is usually because of the leadership of the team.
The England Test team seems to have lost the focus it had in the time with Nasser Hussain as captain and in the early years of the captaincy of Michael Vaughan.
Is it time to consider Collingwood taking over as Captain of the Test Team as well as the One-day team?
Collingwood has performed well since he has been one-day captain while in recent years Vaughan hasn't performed as well as he did before he was captain.
The balance of the team and the confidence will be improved if Flintoff is fit to return to the team. England are always reluctant to blood good young players. Rashid could be a matchwinner with the ball over the next decade and needs to be fast-tracked into the team. He can develop into a good enough batsman to bat at 6-7 in the order and will enable England to play 2 spinners as well as 3 seam bowlers with Collingwood as support. With 2 spinners playing we need to play our best wicket-keeper and with allrounders Rashid, Flintoff and Broad we should be able to have Read as the wicket-keeper.
Possible team
Cook
Vaughan
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood (captain)
Rashid
Flintoff
Broad
Read
Sidebottom
Panesar
If Flintoff is unfit he would have to be replaced by a seam bowler. Pick someone from the county game who is on form and can bowl line and length. (Onions ?)
Hopefully some young batsmen will come through and score heavily in the county game to replace Vaughan and put pressure on the other batsmen. It is important that any batsmen coming into the team are capable of fielding at slip!!
Brian Johnson
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English cricket has been deteriorating over the last 30 years. Andrew Staruss is one of the manifestations. Flintoff not being there is a problem. Pietersen, Vaughn, Cook and Collingwood are occasionally coming good with batting. In bowling, I wonder why Chris Tremlett is not being used. Harmison appears to be better than Sidebottom even now. I would like England to field Pietersen, Collingwood, Vaughn, Cook, Harmison, Sidebottom, Tremlett, Panesar, Prior, Anderson and Bell. Starauss is no good now and so is Owais Shah.
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IF we are talking about possible team for the summer how about this:
Cook
Key
Carberry
KP
Colly
Bell
Ambrose (or Mustard?)
Broad
Onions (or Mahmood/Plunkett/Anderson?)
Sidebottom
Panesar
With Fred to come in at 8 and Broad to drop to 9 if and when.
I think Rashid needs one more year o the circuit before coming into the side.
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Vaughan has failed yet again in both innings, it is a sure fire disgrace if he is continued to be selected when the Kiwis visit. Why does everyone elses place always seem under threat but not his.He must go. He should do the decent thing and drop himself.
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Well, series and tour is nearly over and we have the return series to plan for.
My XI:
Cook
Vaughan (yep, I would still keep him)
Bell (Back up the order where he can spend time at the crease and leave him there)
KP
Collingwood
Shah
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Monty
Hoggard (hopefully he can get some overs under his belt early season and get his rhythm back)
12th man - Anderson (on his day exceptional but still a bit erratic like Brett Lee was. If Hoggard and Sidebottom bowl well then use Anderson as a strike bowler if one of the two are out then I would go Broad)
If Flintoff proves himself fit early season then look to introduce him in ODI don't rush him back for a five-dayer yet.
Under no circumstances should Harmison or Strauss be allowed back but as I write this Strauss has scored some runs so will get a repreive.
Denly and Carberry must be close to call-ups and Onions will probably appear next winter.
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Much of the problem for the openers could be the pressure, since knowing that Strauss and Bell will both buckle can hardly lead to a positive and confident pair of openers.It',s not rocket science with both openers out there is a short route via Pietersen and Colligwood to Englands extended tail and mediocre scores/lost matches.
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Interesting how so many of the general public appear to know considerably more about team selection and technique than those in control of the England side. Surely, if this many people are sufficiently guru-like when it comes to the not inconsiderable technical nuances of the game of cricket, then they should, at the very least, be playing in or coaching a first class side... This type of knee-jerk reaction is precisely what is not required. Strauss is obviously out of form and down on confidence, and should probably be asked to go and perform again at county level. Having a go at Bell is risible as his record speaks for itself, and dropping him is totally unjustified. As for the others, they are all capable, and should be retained to make good. How anyone can make predictions about Ambrose based on the two and a bit test matches he has played, I fail to understand. His glovework is far superior to Prior and Jones, and he's probably a much better batsman than Read ever will be. Give the chap a chance. And just so nobody can accuse me of bias - I'm a Middlesex member, and suggesting the dropping of the only Middlesex player in the side...
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For the summer I would go with:
1. Rob Key
2. Michael Vaughan
3. Kevin Pietersen
4. Alastair Cook
5. Paul Collingwood
6. Ian Bell
7. Tim Ambrose
8. Staurt Broad
9. Ryan Sidebottom
10. Matthew Hoggard
11. Monty Panesar
Strauss probably needs to go back and play for Middlesex for the summer, I'd bring in Rob Key to replace him, he's an excellent batsman who's got better and better over the last few years and deserves another chance. I don't know why Cook opens the batting, I think he'd be more effective batting lower down the order, and Key would be a good opener. Owais Shah just isn't good enough, he's a very 'ok' batsman, he's nowhere near as good as Key. Ian Bell has in the past picked up his best scores batting at 6, so why do they always play him at 3? Move him to 6.
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England's failings with the bat have been going on some time under Vaughan.
England 1st Inns Totals
500+ : 6
400-499 : 10
300-399 : 13
100-299 : 15
Under 100 : 1
Average : 351
Opposition 1st Inns Totals
500+ : 6
400-499 : 9
300-399 : 13
100-299 : 17
Under 100 : 0
Average : 349
That may not look so bad for England, but they have played 1/3 of their Tests under Vaughan against Bangladesh and West Indies
1st Inns averages
England vs WIN/BAN : 403
WIN/BAN vs England : 268
England vs Top Seven : 325
Top Seven vs England : 389
As seems to be human nature these days there are plenty of fingers pointed, usually at the keeper, Strauss, out of form batsmen, anyone who bowls badly etc etc. Vaughan gets a lot of credit for his captaincy and the Ashes win, the reason we won that series is because we managed to average 371 1st inns, BUT our bowlers kept the aussies down to 277. Is that down to Vaughan or the bowlers? Vaughan himself did a Strauss that series in producing one big score which lifted his series average, a rather fortuitous 166 and he should have been out twice on 41.
But as is often the case, the outcome is normally given more importance than the way it was achieved and the narrowest of wins in the two Tests led to the nation feeling we were the best around. Perhaps truthfully England are where they have been for many years and the aussies had a blip while teams like New Zealand and West Indies are (well) below par.
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Owzat repeats a common mantra about 2005 - that the series was close. Of course in one respect it was (frighteningly so at Edgbaston) but this neglects the fact that in the two drawn matches (both rain interrupted), England were well ahead, and would certainly have won at Old Trafford with another session.
The Oval was certainly a bit more up and down, but would Australia really have fancied over 330 to win, given an extra day?
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Owzat repeats a common mantra about 2005 - that the series was close. Of course in one respect it was (frighteningly so at Edgbaston) but this neglects the fact that in the two drawn matches (both rain interrupted), England were well ahead, and would certainly have won at Old Trafford with another session.
The Oval was certainly a bit more up and down, but would Australia really have fancied over 330 to win, given an extra day?
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